Mustangs at Maralinga
Silly Old Git
If yer get sick of chasing shadows there is always Lasseter's Reef
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this same bloke was an instructor to dive school in the south pacific and told me of some place called either plane or yank alley, where at the conclusion of WW2 the us systematically drove tanks, trucks, aircraft into the sea going out a mile and about 500mtrs wide, may have been an island of vanuatu, can't remember but he did have some footage of it, was sad, there was heaps of great stuff...
There was also a site (on land) near Finchafen where some bloke had found multi layers of Kittyhawk wings when he dug a hole for some other purpose.
After the war, and after attempting without success to find a buyer**, the Americans built a huge ramp out off a cliff (I think, from memory, either at Okinawa or Iwo Jima), and drove a huge amount of equipment originally slated for the invasion of Japan off the ramp into the sea. I've seen the fim of truck after truck after truck, all apparently laden with as much stuff as could be crammed into their backs, being driven down the ramp into the sea. I'm sure it's available somewhere on YouTube. I think they did the same at quite a few places throughout the Pacific.
** The best price they could get was 5 cents in the dollar from the French, who wanted it for their campaign against the Viet Minh. They US considered that wasn't enough, so they dumped it all.
Usually, coral growth and degradation would leave the equipment in a very poor state of repair by now. However, not always so. I was in PNG in the early 70s when a USN Corsair was recovered from very deep water somewhere near the Solomons. The aircraft was in almost pristine condition, with the markings on its paintwork still easily read. Even the tyres were still inflated. Apparently, this was because the depth the aircraft happened to come to rest at was such that there was little oxygen to support the sea life that would have made a home on the wreck.
There's probably someone out there in PPruneland who'll remember that particular recovery. The pilot's body was still in the cockpit and I understand it was returned to the US for burial. I think the year was around 1970 or 71, but am not sure.
It's probably in water way too deep, (off the continental shelf), but after WW1, (and I suspect after WW2 as well), a huge number of aircraft were dumped in the sea off Sydney Heads. The aircraft, all war surplus, were given (or, more likely, sold) to Australia by the Brits so that for a short time, I understand that the RAAF had more aeroplanes than men!
Back in my Herc days, we used to drop old crypto machines in the same area, so I think it would be safe to say that the water there is VERY deep.
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The problem is IF you actually found one of these hidden stashes WHO OWNS IT ? The Govt ? The landowner ? I think the person who found it would be a long way down the line
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My understanding about the law here in Indonesia is that any WW2 aircraft wreck is property of the air force but to get one out you would also have to deal with the landowner the local police and the local government , that's to get it out locally , exporting could be a whole series of new problems.
Did the americans ever get 'Swamp Ghost' out of PNG or is it still sitting at Lae Harbor ?
Did the americans ever get 'Swamp Ghost' out of PNG or is it still sitting at Lae Harbor ?
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They finally got Swamp Ghost out , there was a 4 or 5 year legal battle over the legality of the sale and during that time it was sitting at Lae Harbor , it's now in the USA
If you're interested read the chronology of this recovery , what a beaurocratic nightmare
The Swamp Ghost > News Archive
Swamp Ghost sale was ‘illegal’
The National [ January 24, 2010 | Read Article Online ]
THE Swamp Ghost may well be on its way to the United States but the conduct of State agencies in failing to retain it in PNG has come under fire.
Indeed, a scathing report by the Parliamentary Public Accounts Committee (PAC) recommended that the Swamp Ghost aircraft not be sold.
Despite this the Swamp Ghost finally left PNG shores last week destined for the United States.
While the Ghost might be beyond recovery, the PAC report gives us cause to really examine what goes on in the National Museum and Art Gallery, what potential this rather shy agency of Government has in PNG.
PNG is a treasure throve for its arts, crafts, and for its war surplus materials.
In the absence of any really public scrutiny and taking this PAC report as a guide, there appears to have been much going on that does not bode well.
The PAC report was tabled in Parliament last year and although its recommendations in relation to the Swamp Ghost are specific, no action has been taken by the Government.
The PAC concluded that the National Museum and Art Gallery had “failed to act in a lawful manner when dealing with foreign “salvors” of War Surplus Materials, failed to co-operate with the Office of the Auditor General, failed to comply with its own Guidelines for the consideration of applications to salvage war surplus, failed to protect State property at all, illegally failed to comply with Financial Instructions, failed to take reasonable steps to ascertain the bona fides of foreign salvors, was subject to external influence and threats, failed to account properly or at all for monies or “gifts” received from foreign “salvors” and acquiesced in the on sale of State property by foreigners with no concern for the interests of the State”.
One trustee of the NMAG described the Museum to the Committee as a “national disgrace”, a description which the Committee was “inclined to agree with”.
Said the PAC: “The Director and management of the National Museum and Art Gallery have, quite unlawfully, assumed power to sell War Surplus Materials which are owned by the State. The Museum has no right or ability to do so.
“The Director and management of the National Museum and Art Gallery have assumed an agency for and on behalf of the State, which it does not have and has acted unlawfully in negotiating and executing a contract of sale of State property – namely the Swamp Ghost aircraft.
“The Director and management of the National Museum and Art Gallery have illegally entered into a contract to sell State property to foreigners for no return or revenue to the State.
“The National Museum and Art Gallery has for many years allowed the sale, removal and on-sale of State property – namely War Surplus Materials – illegally and with no checks or controls on dealing in State property by foreigners. There has been no return or gain to the State from virtually any of these transactions.”
The PAC reported that the National Museum and Art Gallery has no power whatsoever vested in it to sell, approve removal or export or to collect money from the sale, removal or on sale of War Surplus Materials.
Further it has found that the National Museum has failed to implement and maintain competent or adequate systems of accounting, control or monitoring of War Surplus Materials removed from Papua New Guinea.
Where it has received money it seems to have misused and misapplied a considerable amount of received by it from foreign salvors of State property.
The National Museum and Art Gallery has been accused of being under the influence of and “still is subject to the considerable and improper influence of foreigners and foreign companies which unlawfully obtain, export and on-sell War Surplus Materials from Papua New Guinea – which materials are and remain, State property”.
In entering into the contract to sell the Swamp Ghost aircraft the NMAG would appear, so the PAC declares, to have breached the Public Finances (Management) Act and the National Museum and Art Gallery Act and the War Surplus Materials Act.
That it held itself out as representing the State and as having the power to sell the Ghost, both powers which it did not have, the NMAG and its officers might also have breached the Criminal Code, the PAC declared.
In entering a contract to sell the Swamp Ghost aircraft, the NMAG ignored legal advice from the Office of the State Solicitor to the effect that it had no power to sell State property unless in accordance with the terms of the Public Finances (Management) Act – i.e. by public tender – and that any proceeds of sale were treated as Trust Funds belonging to the State.
The National [ January 24, 2010 | Read Article Online ]
THE Swamp Ghost may well be on its way to the United States but the conduct of State agencies in failing to retain it in PNG has come under fire.
Indeed, a scathing report by the Parliamentary Public Accounts Committee (PAC) recommended that the Swamp Ghost aircraft not be sold.
Despite this the Swamp Ghost finally left PNG shores last week destined for the United States.
While the Ghost might be beyond recovery, the PAC report gives us cause to really examine what goes on in the National Museum and Art Gallery, what potential this rather shy agency of Government has in PNG.
PNG is a treasure throve for its arts, crafts, and for its war surplus materials.
In the absence of any really public scrutiny and taking this PAC report as a guide, there appears to have been much going on that does not bode well.
The PAC report was tabled in Parliament last year and although its recommendations in relation to the Swamp Ghost are specific, no action has been taken by the Government.
The PAC concluded that the National Museum and Art Gallery had “failed to act in a lawful manner when dealing with foreign “salvors” of War Surplus Materials, failed to co-operate with the Office of the Auditor General, failed to comply with its own Guidelines for the consideration of applications to salvage war surplus, failed to protect State property at all, illegally failed to comply with Financial Instructions, failed to take reasonable steps to ascertain the bona fides of foreign salvors, was subject to external influence and threats, failed to account properly or at all for monies or “gifts” received from foreign “salvors” and acquiesced in the on sale of State property by foreigners with no concern for the interests of the State”.
One trustee of the NMAG described the Museum to the Committee as a “national disgrace”, a description which the Committee was “inclined to agree with”.
Said the PAC: “The Director and management of the National Museum and Art Gallery have, quite unlawfully, assumed power to sell War Surplus Materials which are owned by the State. The Museum has no right or ability to do so.
“The Director and management of the National Museum and Art Gallery have assumed an agency for and on behalf of the State, which it does not have and has acted unlawfully in negotiating and executing a contract of sale of State property – namely the Swamp Ghost aircraft.
“The Director and management of the National Museum and Art Gallery have illegally entered into a contract to sell State property to foreigners for no return or revenue to the State.
“The National Museum and Art Gallery has for many years allowed the sale, removal and on-sale of State property – namely War Surplus Materials – illegally and with no checks or controls on dealing in State property by foreigners. There has been no return or gain to the State from virtually any of these transactions.”
The PAC reported that the National Museum and Art Gallery has no power whatsoever vested in it to sell, approve removal or export or to collect money from the sale, removal or on sale of War Surplus Materials.
Further it has found that the National Museum has failed to implement and maintain competent or adequate systems of accounting, control or monitoring of War Surplus Materials removed from Papua New Guinea.
Where it has received money it seems to have misused and misapplied a considerable amount of received by it from foreign salvors of State property.
The National Museum and Art Gallery has been accused of being under the influence of and “still is subject to the considerable and improper influence of foreigners and foreign companies which unlawfully obtain, export and on-sell War Surplus Materials from Papua New Guinea – which materials are and remain, State property”.
In entering into the contract to sell the Swamp Ghost aircraft the NMAG would appear, so the PAC declares, to have breached the Public Finances (Management) Act and the National Museum and Art Gallery Act and the War Surplus Materials Act.
That it held itself out as representing the State and as having the power to sell the Ghost, both powers which it did not have, the NMAG and its officers might also have breached the Criminal Code, the PAC declared.
In entering a contract to sell the Swamp Ghost aircraft, the NMAG ignored legal advice from the Office of the State Solicitor to the effect that it had no power to sell State property unless in accordance with the terms of the Public Finances (Management) Act – i.e. by public tender – and that any proceeds of sale were treated as Trust Funds belonging to the State.
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Watching the video it must have been a pissy little atomic bomb for these Mustangs to survive the blast so close to the bomb
What I find amusing is the changes in evironmental and OH+S issues , in 1967 they were selling mustangs that glowed in the dark from being parked next to an atomic bomb and in 2010 they are worried about a bit of asbestos in the Caribous and you have to show how your going to deal with it before you can buy the aircraft
What I find amusing is the changes in evironmental and OH+S issues , in 1967 they were selling mustangs that glowed in the dark from being parked next to an atomic bomb and in 2010 they are worried about a bit of asbestos in the Caribous and you have to show how your going to deal with it before you can buy the aircraft
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Jaffa Nz
The videos you posted have already been posted on Pprune on 13 August 2011 on the 'Mustangs at Maralinga' thread which started in 2007. You're a little late!
The videos you posted have already been posted on Pprune on 13 August 2011 on the 'Mustangs at Maralinga' thread which started in 2007. You're a little late!
two great threads nonetheless, and good work on getting that doco on youtube 
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Phone-Home
Has anyone heard news that 30 crated spitfires have been found & excavation rights agreed on? I think this was in new guinea or burma maybe borneo, I would like someone to confirm this ???: (This news was 4/2012)
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i saw the gye from bendigo and his mustang in 1960's
i saw the gye from bendigo and his mustang in 1960's as a child at bendigo airport during a flying display and my father now deseased had photos of him flying and my father was involved with the speakers set up at the display ..skeatesy
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The "Cocky" at Barham who sold the Mustang was Former Bomber Command Pilot, Squadron Leader Edgar Pickles.
Edgar Pickles DFC and Bar, flew Lancaster Bombers from 1943 - 1945, he completed two tours and 50 bombing missions over Germany. Edgar was twenty-two years old when he flew his first Lancaster and by the time the war ended two years later he had risen from a sergeant pilot to squadron leader with a DFC and Bar (Distinguished Flying Cross). The DFC is awarded for "an act or acts of valour, courage or devotion to duty whilst flying in active operations against the enemy" and the bar is added to the ribbon for holders of the DFC who received a second award.
Edgar Pickles DFC and Bar, flew Lancaster Bombers from 1943 - 1945, he completed two tours and 50 bombing missions over Germany. Edgar was twenty-two years old when he flew his first Lancaster and by the time the war ended two years later he had risen from a sergeant pilot to squadron leader with a DFC and Bar (Distinguished Flying Cross). The DFC is awarded for "an act or acts of valour, courage or devotion to duty whilst flying in active operations against the enemy" and the bar is added to the ribbon for holders of the DFC who received a second award.
