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Piper Meridian / PC12

Old 28th Oct 2007, 03:13
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Piper Meridian / PC12

Hi,

A non-aviation company I know is looking to buy a single eg Piper Meridian or PC12, and I was wondering if anyone here that operates one could PM me so I can find out some real operating figures eg range vs payload etc

Any other suggestions would be helpful as for aircraft types, but it must be single and turbine.

The usual flight is Melbourne - Brisbane, never more than 5 - 6 pax with not much luggage at all.

They asked me to give them a hand as an outside perspective, as you know aircraft salesman will try to flog them their brand.

Cheers,
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Old 28th Oct 2007, 04:05
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I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
 
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THe PC-12 will be a much more expensive capital outlay but have plenty of payload capacity.

If you are going to consider a 6 place then I would be looking more at the TBM 850 as opposed to the Meridian. I did a bit of a comparison on the 700 and the Meridian some time back and the Piper just didn't stack up.
Good time to buy now also with the dollar sitting happily at around .90 USD.

THe experts here will be able to give you a much more detailed CBA for each type.

Last edited by Islander Jock; 28th Oct 2007 at 06:24. Reason: to satisfy the spelling and grammar nazis
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Old 28th Oct 2007, 04:29
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They are not worried about having to wait 12 - 24 months for delivery either I might add if it means getting the right aircraft.
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Old 28th Oct 2007, 06:23
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I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
 
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Havic,
Check your PMs.

IJ
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Old 28th Oct 2007, 06:47
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Ask Piper about any engine mount problems....

That new PC12 looks awfully nice.

Not biased, as I haven't flown either.
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Old 28th Oct 2007, 07:30
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For that sort of distance you really should look at Jets. For the amount you'll spend on a PC12 a used jet will probably be a better choice. More pax appeal, no noise/vibration fly higher more efficient.

PC 12's are awesome but probably better suited to a shorter distance or if you want to land on short or unimproved runways.
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Old 28th Oct 2007, 07:38
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The PC-12/47 can carry full fuel and full payload. Cockpit and passenger cabin room are impressive, it's got an (emergency only) flushing toilet and it is arguably easier to fly than the Meridian. Built like a tank, it is capable, as it's been said, of short take off and landings on unimproved surfaces

Drawbacks:

Temperaturewise, it is difficult to keep Pilots and pasengers happy. I've heard that the new "NG" model will have independent temperature settings.
Water condesation freezes on the edges of the windshield, beyond the point where the heating elements lay, frost then melts during descents and "rain" falls on the dashboard . Have a piece of cloth handy . This will hopefully be fixed in the new model.

Melbourne - Brisbane is well within the PC-12 range. Aproximately a 3h flight with 0 wind. Planned fuel burn aprox 600 kg

If you want any specific figure just let me know.

Last edited by ant1; 28th Oct 2007 at 07:54.
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Old 28th Oct 2007, 08:16
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you really should look at Jets. For the amount you'll spend on a PC12 a used jet will probably be a better choice. More pax appeal, no noise/vibration fly higher more efficient.
TBM 700 or 850...a few 700s around for sale, and the above statement could be said for the TBM as well. There are a few around Aussie as well I believe, can anybody confirm this for me? Cheers.

LP
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Old 28th Oct 2007, 08:59
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With the dollar the way it is, I figured they may as well buy a new (zero time) aircraft.

The aircraft will not always be landing at primary airports (hence why jets are out of the equation)

As it is just being used for private operations for a company one donk is enough.

Melbourne - Bris is the LONGEST leg it would ever do, Melb - Syd and other country areas are in the equation.
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Old 28th Oct 2007, 09:56
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TBM 850 it is then!! Drop me a line if they need someone to 'drive' it

LP
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Old 28th Oct 2007, 09:59
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Launchpad, if they end up going ahead with it all, and unless you can fly a turbine chopper as well (I'm sure yours truly could use a spare driver to take some holidays every now and a again)..
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Old 28th Oct 2007, 12:30
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Meridian vs PC12?

That's kinda like comparing a Porsche with a Mac truck!

I doubt the Meridian will make Melb - Bris with the load you are talking about.

The TBM850 is a great bit of kit, but it is Pilot + 5 pax only.

The PC12 is probably the go if it has to be an SE turboprop.

Dr
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Old 28th Oct 2007, 12:44
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I went through all this for a company about 2 years ago

If you're going to consider the Meridian, stop considering it and think TBM 700C2 instead. If the TBM is "only" a 5-pax aircraft, the Meridian is much less than that when you put a decent load of fuel on.

If you have a look at www.controller.com you will see used PC-12/45s for around 2.7m USD and same model TBM700C2 for about 2.3 to 2.4m USD.

Between those two there is fck all difference in fuel burn and big difference in available space - go the PC-12.

Good luck!
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Old 28th Oct 2007, 16:21
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but

if there is no gear to go and 5 pax is ok, then why not the 850. the pc12 gets along at around 250ktas whereas the 850 is more like 315ktas. like said before tractor vs porsche. the pc12 is great, but hell it would be nicer to cruise a bit closer to 300
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Old 28th Oct 2007, 19:35
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A few things.

vs. Jets

The PC12's cabin is larger than most jets in that cabin class, so the PC12 will give your pax more comfort, minus the prop noise. Not to mention the smaller fuel bill!

The PC12 has better all round performance (minus air speed of course) and when you look at the 850's economy cruise of 252kts you've lost all advantage. So you get better passenger comfort, better payload, better STOL (think it beats it by around 200feet).

AS for running costs, I'm not sure, I found a pdf on pilatus's site (http://www.pilatus-aircraft.com/medi...-The-Facts.pdf) with some facts and figures, but why not contact someone like the RFDS and ask nicely, they are one of the biggest operators of the type in the world!

I would always perfer to have more range and be able to throw more stuff in my a/c than have a little extra speed, because the 30-40kts and say 12 or so minutes you might gain on your average flight from the faster a/c will soon mean SFA when your IMC with a nasty headwind when your clients desides to take the wife and kids on a holiday in the company plane
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Old 28th Oct 2007, 21:25
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Thanks to everyone who has replied.. You have all pretty much confirmed in my mind the plan I have already conceived.

I am leaning towards the PC12 simply with the payload / range capacity and its' ability to operate from un-prepared strips.

I'll keep you posted if they end up putting a down payment on one. Fingers crossed.
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Old 29th Oct 2007, 04:16
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TBM 700 or 850...a few 700s around for sale, and the above statement could be said for the TBM as well. There are a few around Aussie as well I believe, can anybody confirm this for me?
I'm told there are seven TBM850s in country or on order and counting - had a ride in one a few weeks ago and it was great fun!
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Old 29th Oct 2007, 06:04
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VASTLY different aircraft as has been pointed out. You need to test fly both the TBM and the PC12. Forget the Meridian it won't carry the pax and/or fly the distance especially with holding required.

Both TBM and PC12 are magnificent aircraft in their ways. Probably similar running costs.
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Old 29th Oct 2007, 10:39
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Had a look at the PC12 for an upgrade from a caravan for a previous employer. Running costs weren't much more due to the extra speed and worked out about the $700/hr which included all costs. Apparently RFDS costs work out cheaper due to hours per year or something, but anyway thats a ballpark.
Agreed on the PC12, very roomy, good payload, and i wanna fly one :P
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Old 29th Oct 2007, 15:00
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$700 an hour ins't bad actually considering that works out to $420 per person on a 3 hour flight given that flexible business class tickets on domestic carriers are often almost twice that cost!

(Sorry, thinking out loud )
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