Negative G's breaking wings?????
As a bit of a side note, I have heard a story of a pilot who, while doing aeros, overstressed the wings, and when he noticed them starting to fail, flew back to the airport inverted, rolling around on finals and landing. Quite possibly urban legend, but would make a good bar story!
True story Capt'n!
The pilot was eleven times British aerobatic champion Neil Williams.
The aircraft, if my memory is correct, was a Zlin!
You can read his report on the incident here:
http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/repeats...ng_failure.htm
Neil William's book on aerobatics should be compulsory reading for all who aspire to master aeros.
Williams was killed in an aircraft crash in 1977, while ferrying a Spainish built Heinkel 111.
Dr
The pilot was eleven times British aerobatic champion Neil Williams.
The aircraft, if my memory is correct, was a Zlin!
You can read his report on the incident here:
http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/repeats...ng_failure.htm
Neil William's book on aerobatics should be compulsory reading for all who aspire to master aeros.
Williams was killed in an aircraft crash in 1977, while ferrying a Spainish built Heinkel 111.
Dr
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 20th Oct 2007 at 12:03.
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#2
A-FLOOR
Over 150 posts! About time I clicked here and ordered a Personal Title.
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Posts: 191 In '81 a Fokker F28 flying over Moerdijk in the Netherlands experienced severe turbulence after entering a thunderstorm, causing one of the wings to separate from the aircraft after it experienced loads of up to +6.8 G and -3,2 G
A-FLOOR
Over 150 posts! About time I clicked here and ordered a Personal Title.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Posts: 191 In '81 a Fokker F28 flying over Moerdijk in the Netherlands experienced severe turbulence after entering a thunderstorm, causing one of the wings to separate from the aircraft after it experienced loads of up to +6.8 G and -3,2 G
Proper training at recoveries from unusual attitudes is a useful skill to keep up your sleeve if the pilot encounters severe turbulence while in IMC or at night. Most of the current training at flying schools in these manoeuvres is under VMC and full peripheral vision. Obvious flight safety limits to in-flight training mean students may not always receive adequate instruction in extreme attitude recovery techniques.
To some extent this limitation can be overcome by practicing in a synthetic trainer where flight instrument interpretation in extreme attitudes is the key to recovering to level flight in IMC. There may be a difference in recovery loads between a Cessna 150 and a larger twin engine type, but the basic recovery actions in IMC will be similar. It is money well spent.
To some extent this limitation can be overcome by practicing in a synthetic trainer where flight instrument interpretation in extreme attitudes is the key to recovering to level flight in IMC. There may be a difference in recovery loads between a Cessna 150 and a larger twin engine type, but the basic recovery actions in IMC will be similar. It is money well spent.
Folks,
For what it is worth, I believe that severe negative G was major factor in both the Tasmanian and more recent accident, in the former case turbulence and standing waves were forecast, in the latter also reported, the weather was really fierce the night Steve Nott's aeroplane broke up.
I believe there is enough evidence of this, and I find it very difficult to believe that any pilot, in daylight VMC, would allow a runaway nose down trim to develop to a situation where the aircraft broke up.
I knew the pilot in the Tasmanian accident, and in my opinion she was a competent and careful pilot, and a tragic victim of circumstances beyond anyone's control.
Sometimes, but not always in an aircraft accident, the obvious answer is the correct answer.
Tootle pip!!
For what it is worth, I believe that severe negative G was major factor in both the Tasmanian and more recent accident, in the former case turbulence and standing waves were forecast, in the latter also reported, the weather was really fierce the night Steve Nott's aeroplane broke up.
I believe there is enough evidence of this, and I find it very difficult to believe that any pilot, in daylight VMC, would allow a runaway nose down trim to develop to a situation where the aircraft broke up.
I knew the pilot in the Tasmanian accident, and in my opinion she was a competent and careful pilot, and a tragic victim of circumstances beyond anyone's control.
Sometimes, but not always in an aircraft accident, the obvious answer is the correct answer.
Tootle pip!!
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Following WWII many surplus Lockheed L-18 Lodestars were upgraded with various mods and used as corporate aircraft. One of the mods was an electric trim motor on the elevator tab - Spartan did this particular job.
One ship had the wings fail in the negative G direction during cruise (50s or 60s) - and the trim tab was found in the full-nose-down position. The fix was a slower-turning, lower hp trim motor.
Edit: found this description
One ship had the wings fail in the negative G direction during cruise (50s or 60s) - and the trim tab was found in the full-nose-down position. The fix was a slower-turning, lower hp trim motor.
Edit: found this description
Last edited by barit1; 24th Oct 2007 at 00:41.
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I have a number of hours in the aircraft involved in the Tassie accident.
The autopilot was not to be trusted. It had the habit of winding on nose down trim in cruise. It did this in small increments and the pilot could give themselves a scare if they had not noticed the movement of the trim and disconnected the autopilot without 2 hands on the control columb.
The autopilot was not to be trusted. It had the habit of winding on nose down trim in cruise. It did this in small increments and the pilot could give themselves a scare if they had not noticed the movement of the trim and disconnected the autopilot without 2 hands on the control columb.
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I am going to take a brave leap here......but..........here goes!
CFICARE
your comments about a known dodgy piece of fairly important equipment that you knew about and others may have also, make me sick.
This young lady lost her life and someone lost an a/c, all because the plane was not grounded by YOU and or others who also did not have the guts to do so.
Maybe I am being a bit harsh here, and apologies if I am out of line, but really, how would you feel being handed a potentially dangerous piece of equipment and not know about its flaws and particularly if its an aircraft!
If my suspicions are correct, I feel sorry for you because it must be hard to sleep at night.
Was this ever written up on the MR? If you did report it, the problem is not yours.......but the fact it was known is not something you expect to end like this.
J
CFICARE
your comments about a known dodgy piece of fairly important equipment that you knew about and others may have also, make me sick.
This young lady lost her life and someone lost an a/c, all because the plane was not grounded by YOU and or others who also did not have the guts to do so.
Maybe I am being a bit harsh here, and apologies if I am out of line, but really, how would you feel being handed a potentially dangerous piece of equipment and not know about its flaws and particularly if its an aircraft!
If my suspicions are correct, I feel sorry for you because it must be hard to sleep at night.
Was this ever written up on the MR? If you did report it, the problem is not yours.......but the fact it was known is not something you expect to end like this.
J
