Loyalty in Aviation
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Loyalty in Aviation
G'day everyone,
At the moment I am working in GA with a company who has treated me very well from the beginning and i enjoy working there and made many great friends.
I feel very lucky to be there since it seems like many other people don't get treated that well at some GA companies, but recently i have been offered a job with our rival company but on better equipment. My head tells me i should take it for better career progression, but my gut tells me i should stay since my current company has been so good to me. I know it's kind of a dog eat dog world in aviation, and sometimes it seems its every man for themselves, but i wish it wasn't like that and I just don't think i could do it. I would love someone to tell me i'm not making a stupid decision in staying lol.
Would love to hear any advice from anyone who has maybe been in the same situation or anyone who would like to offer advice.
Cheers
At the moment I am working in GA with a company who has treated me very well from the beginning and i enjoy working there and made many great friends.
I feel very lucky to be there since it seems like many other people don't get treated that well at some GA companies, but recently i have been offered a job with our rival company but on better equipment. My head tells me i should take it for better career progression, but my gut tells me i should stay since my current company has been so good to me. I know it's kind of a dog eat dog world in aviation, and sometimes it seems its every man for themselves, but i wish it wasn't like that and I just don't think i could do it. I would love someone to tell me i'm not making a stupid decision in staying lol.
Would love to hear any advice from anyone who has maybe been in the same situation or anyone who would like to offer advice.
Cheers
AustralianMade
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Be open
Hi Puma4319,
If the company you work for is as good as you say, then have a beer and a chat with your CP or management and tell them you've had an offer and that you are considering it. Ask them if they will match the pay you've been offered and if there are any equipment upgrades planned in the near future.
If nothing else an open frank discussion with your current employers will do a lot to preserve the good relationship you have with them.
Just my two cents, standing by for flaming.
Cheers,
ABX
If the company you work for is as good as you say, then have a beer and a chat with your CP or management and tell them you've had an offer and that you are considering it. Ask them if they will match the pay you've been offered and if there are any equipment upgrades planned in the near future.
If nothing else an open frank discussion with your current employers will do a lot to preserve the good relationship you have with them.
Just my two cents, standing by for flaming.
Cheers,
ABX
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Loyalty in Aviation?
I am sorry to say to you that there is none.
You must ask yourself one question. If the company you are now employed by, fell on hard times, would the company dump you if they felt they had to? The answer has to be yes, therefore you should take the "better" job offer. Look after yourself interest firstly then think about others because if you don't look after yourself, nobody else will.
Sounds a bit mercenary I know but this is the world we unfortunately live in today.
I am sorry to say to you that there is none.
You must ask yourself one question. If the company you are now employed by, fell on hard times, would the company dump you if they felt they had to? The answer has to be yes, therefore you should take the "better" job offer. Look after yourself interest firstly then think about others because if you don't look after yourself, nobody else will.
Sounds a bit mercenary I know but this is the world we unfortunately live in today.
Guest
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Well you have to look at the big picture. If the company you work with does not have a long term plan to progress to bigger and better things then you are wasting your time there unless you want to stay in GA for life.
Gone are the days we stick with one employer for life. Sure they might be sad or upset if you resign but if you leave on good terms you will always be welcome there. It will be good for you to experience a different way of doing things!
Gone are the days we stick with one employer for life. Sure they might be sad or upset if you resign but if you leave on good terms you will always be welcome there. It will be good for you to experience a different way of doing things!
Listen to ABX - its good advice!
Remember that ultimately the only real loyalty you have is to yourself, but you will also wear the consequences of any decision you make. If you take the new job and it doesn't turn out as expected, you may not be able to go back to your old employer.
I have been in your position several times in my career. Ultimately the choice is your to make. Make it and then make the most of it.
Have no (well few, anyway) regrets!
Dr
Remember that ultimately the only real loyalty you have is to yourself, but you will also wear the consequences of any decision you make. If you take the new job and it doesn't turn out as expected, you may not be able to go back to your old employer.
I have been in your position several times in my career. Ultimately the choice is your to make. Make it and then make the most of it.
Have no (well few, anyway) regrets!
Dr
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doubleu-ankerLoyalty in Aviation?
I am sorry to say to you that there is none.
******!!
I agree with the other posts.
just one thing to keep your mind on though, If you go where the money is you will be going from job to job over your career just to chase the $$$$
looks good on a loan application
SALARY. 120K PA!!!!( yes finally )
Length in current employer: 1 week
if under 2 years last employer time: 2 weeks
How many Employers in teh last 2 years: 104
Reason for leaving: more money
References: any of the 103 past jobs
not saying that its like that and not saying YOU are like that but just be carefull. Have seen pilots leave for better money in the past and have it all go downhill very quick.
As per the other posts, got so great advise there
I am sorry to say to you that there is none.
******!!
I agree with the other posts.
just one thing to keep your mind on though, If you go where the money is you will be going from job to job over your career just to chase the $$$$
looks good on a loan application
SALARY. 120K PA!!!!( yes finally )
Length in current employer: 1 week
if under 2 years last employer time: 2 weeks
How many Employers in teh last 2 years: 104
Reason for leaving: more money
References: any of the 103 past jobs
not saying that its like that and not saying YOU are like that but just be carefull. Have seen pilots leave for better money in the past and have it all go downhill very quick.
As per the other posts, got so great advise there
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Yes there are!!
There are some honest, reliable, loyal people out there. But plenty of others.
For some reason the major airlines seem reluctant to employ some pilots who have the required qualifications. They seem to be quite picky, and some are looking elsewhere, or setting up their own flying schools.
I wonder why?
For some reason the major airlines seem reluctant to employ some pilots who have the required qualifications. They seem to be quite picky, and some are looking elsewhere, or setting up their own flying schools.
I wonder why?
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bizzybody
Would suggest you calm down just a little and not get so excited. Who the hell mentioned money and going from job to job, apart from you? Yes I have had a few jobs and walked off a few too. If you think there is a fortune to be made working for someone indeed, anyone, then you are wrong. You may get rich working for yourself.
You probably have a little bit more learn when you take those rose tinted glasses off. Throw them away if I were you.
I've been in this industry 38 years and have not come across one employer that would not drop you like a hot potato when the going gets tough and jobs get axed. Maybe you think you you are indispensable? If that is the case think again sonny.
Would suggest you calm down just a little and not get so excited. Who the hell mentioned money and going from job to job, apart from you? Yes I have had a few jobs and walked off a few too. If you think there is a fortune to be made working for someone indeed, anyone, then you are wrong. You may get rich working for yourself.
You probably have a little bit more learn when you take those rose tinted glasses off. Throw them away if I were you.
I've been in this industry 38 years and have not come across one employer that would not drop you like a hot potato when the going gets tough and jobs get axed. Maybe you think you you are indispensable? If that is the case think again sonny.
Evertonian
There's more to a job than money.
I had 17 great years at AN & when it went pear shaped, I have been hell bent on getting to an equivalent monetary position to where I was in 2001. I have pretty much achieved that aim (albeit 6 years later & with that $ value 6 years out of date) but the price is a job that I'm bored silly with & stuck on a career path that I'd rather not be.
My point is that whilst there may be more $$$ available, there's no guarantee of job satisfaction (granted, its the same industry unlike me). ABX has given the advice I would give, talk to them, tell them you really do enjoy your role with the company & your preference is to stay & ask them what the future holds for both of you.
I had 17 great years at AN & when it went pear shaped, I have been hell bent on getting to an equivalent monetary position to where I was in 2001. I have pretty much achieved that aim (albeit 6 years later & with that $ value 6 years out of date) but the price is a job that I'm bored silly with & stuck on a career path that I'd rather not be.
My point is that whilst there may be more $$$ available, there's no guarantee of job satisfaction (granted, its the same industry unlike me). ABX has given the advice I would give, talk to them, tell them you really do enjoy your role with the company & your preference is to stay & ask them what the future holds for both of you.
AustralianMade
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Buster
Buster
That is pretty much exactly what I was trying to say.
No harm in being honest, the aviation industry is much too small to go around getting yourself a bad reputation.
Cheers.
...talk to them, tell them you really do enjoy your role with the company & your preference is to stay & ask them what the future holds for both of you.
No harm in being honest, the aviation industry is much too small to go around getting yourself a bad reputation.
Cheers.
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exactly, If the company you are presently with has been good to you and can offer you similar progression to the other albeit at a slower rate I would most likely stay as you don't want to get a reputation as someone who leaves at the drop of a hat, It is a tiny industry and Chief Pilots talk to each other.
On the other hand if your new company can offer you more than where you are at it sounds like it is time for a frank and honest chat with your boss, you may find you are offered a promotion to keep you there, so either way mate it sounds like a win win situation for you.
On the other hand if your new company can offer you more than where you are at it sounds like it is time for a frank and honest chat with your boss, you may find you are offered a promotion to keep you there, so either way mate it sounds like a win win situation for you.
Evertonian
...And where's the harm in building some loyalty in your company too? If its all rosy there & all staff are happy, then it would be a fool of a manager to tamper with a winning formula.
Its traditional to hate your boss in Oz & God knows, there are plenty that give us good reason too, but if they are generating goodwill amongst their staff, then loyalty will follow. (Keep your eyes open though!)
Reg Ansett was the type of bloke that was an absolute PRlCK to some, yet he had loyalty like I've never seen from his staff...it can be done, that's why I was there so long (albeit after he'd gone) as were so many others.
Look, it may not work out financially for you & you'll need to move on eventually, but you'll remember your time there with fond memories. Can't put a price on that!
Its traditional to hate your boss in Oz & God knows, there are plenty that give us good reason too, but if they are generating goodwill amongst their staff, then loyalty will follow. (Keep your eyes open though!)
Reg Ansett was the type of bloke that was an absolute PRlCK to some, yet he had loyalty like I've never seen from his staff...it can be done, that's why I was there so long (albeit after he'd gone) as were so many others.
Look, it may not work out financially for you & you'll need to move on eventually, but you'll remember your time there with fond memories. Can't put a price on that!
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Thanks for post everyone...it's good to hear other peoples opinions
Just to make it clear though it has nothing to do with money, just an opportunity to move onto better aircraft (turbine) which will help advance my career to where i want to go. But i guess the dilemma i have is it will hurt my current employer, and although i do not plan on being there forever (which they know of course) i do feel like i owe them some more of my time. I believe loyalty is important to employees/other pilots/mates who treat you well, especially in this industry since it seems to be so rare...and just wanted to see if anyone else has experienced this and how they felt and dealed with it.
cheers guys
Just to make it clear though it has nothing to do with money, just an opportunity to move onto better aircraft (turbine) which will help advance my career to where i want to go. But i guess the dilemma i have is it will hurt my current employer, and although i do not plan on being there forever (which they know of course) i do feel like i owe them some more of my time. I believe loyalty is important to employees/other pilots/mates who treat you well, especially in this industry since it seems to be so rare...and just wanted to see if anyone else has experienced this and how they felt and dealed with it.
cheers guys
Guest
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It is normal to feel like you owe something to the company that first gave you your big break into the industry. Having said that you are in the ball park at the moment for your career to really take off. Look at all the opportunitys out there for pilots. As long as you have completed at least 1 year of employment with them there is nothing wrong with leaving them. I know it is hard to believe but they will find another keen person to replace you. Just don't bail on them without giving proper notice.
It all comes done to a balancing act leave too early and they will think you have used them to gain hours. Leave it too late and a potential employer may see you as not being career focused.
It all comes done to a balancing act leave too early and they will think you have used them to gain hours. Leave it too late and a potential employer may see you as not being career focused.
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Reality is, look after number 1, because in the end, no one else will.
I remember reading in the Australian, that even at Qantas, Geoff Dixon said that company loyalty accounts for nothing anymore....
I remember reading in the Australian, that even at Qantas, Geoff Dixon said that company loyalty accounts for nothing anymore....
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Loyalty in Aviation
Just a little story about loyalty.
A few weeks ago a company I am aware of that employs 4 full time and a few more than this as part time pilots bit the bullet and gave all of the full timers endorsements in 2 of the company twins (party bus and bongo van). There were no real conditions except a return of service call, but time already worked was included. In one case there is no time to serve, in another just a couple of months. For these blokes it was a big step and I am sure they all thanked their employer. Word is that they are all treated well and payed above award anyway.
Sad part is that one of the full timers was openly involved in advancing his career, and the CP was aware of this. The guy just got the call that he was waiting for, and what was to be several months of service has now turned into not much more than a few days. The poor CP has just won a major contract that will take a few months of a good pilot, and the guy who is about move on was to be the pilot for this job. Whilst they were aware of all the possibilities, they are devastated now. Sad as they feel they knew it would happen, but after just doing the right thing, they feel have been screwed again. I know the CP has wished the guy well in his choice, but I also know he is hurting.
So what is loyalty, and what criteria is used to judge it. I reckon it's more than look after number one, it has to be look after those who look after you. Be honest in your job and expect the same honesty in return. If we all adopted this and didn't just throw sh*t at every employer because of our own short comings, we would all be better off.
I know they have had a few pilots use them over the last 6 months or so, I just wonder how long they will keep doing the right thing by the next batch of wannabees.
As a post script, they have announced (unofficially) that the big turbine will be on line by xmas, and a couple of major contracts are all but signed and sealed. Now they have to chase another pilot who can drive this!
LOYALTY-------BLAH BLAH BLAH
A few weeks ago a company I am aware of that employs 4 full time and a few more than this as part time pilots bit the bullet and gave all of the full timers endorsements in 2 of the company twins (party bus and bongo van). There were no real conditions except a return of service call, but time already worked was included. In one case there is no time to serve, in another just a couple of months. For these blokes it was a big step and I am sure they all thanked their employer. Word is that they are all treated well and payed above award anyway.
Sad part is that one of the full timers was openly involved in advancing his career, and the CP was aware of this. The guy just got the call that he was waiting for, and what was to be several months of service has now turned into not much more than a few days. The poor CP has just won a major contract that will take a few months of a good pilot, and the guy who is about move on was to be the pilot for this job. Whilst they were aware of all the possibilities, they are devastated now. Sad as they feel they knew it would happen, but after just doing the right thing, they feel have been screwed again. I know the CP has wished the guy well in his choice, but I also know he is hurting.
So what is loyalty, and what criteria is used to judge it. I reckon it's more than look after number one, it has to be look after those who look after you. Be honest in your job and expect the same honesty in return. If we all adopted this and didn't just throw sh*t at every employer because of our own short comings, we would all be better off.
I know they have had a few pilots use them over the last 6 months or so, I just wonder how long they will keep doing the right thing by the next batch of wannabees.
As a post script, they have announced (unofficially) that the big turbine will be on line by xmas, and a couple of major contracts are all but signed and sealed. Now they have to chase another pilot who can drive this!
LOYALTY-------BLAH BLAH BLAH