Multi-engine training - GR1 instructors

[training wheels]

Multi-engine training approval for Grade1 instructors

I've read CAO 40.1.7 in regards to META but just wondering if anyone can clarify this for me. It mentions that grade 1 instructors are approved to conduct multi-engine CIR training .. but do they still need to have the 50 hours of multi-time before hand to be given that privilege?

11.1 For the purposes of subregulation 5.20 (1), a Grade 1 flight instructor is approved to give flying training:

(a) for the issue of:
(i) a command (single engine aeroplane) grade of instrument rating, if
the instructor holds a command (aeroplane) grade of instrument
rating; or
(ii) a command (multi-engine aeroplane) grade of instrument rating, if
the instructor holds a command (multi-engine aeroplane) grade of
instrument rating; or
(iii) a co-pilot (aeroplane) grade of instrument rating, if the instructor
holds an aeroplane instrument rating; and
(b) for the use of a navigation aid or procedure, if that aid or procedure has
been entered in the instructor’s personal log book in accordance with
paragraph 6.5 of section 40.2.1; and
(c) if the instructor holds, or instructs under an arrangement with a person who holds, an Air Operator’s Certificate that authorises flying training for the issue of a aeroplane instrument rating.

[bizzybody]

I THOURGHT....... that the 50 hours only applied if you were going for a CFI approval

could be wrong and i probably am

Bizz

[Unhinged]

If you are a Grade 1 without META, you cannot instruct on multi-engine aircraft.
(CAO 40.1.7, para 9.7)

You need 50 hrs multi command (plus some other stuff) to get META.

So despite 40.1.7, para 11.1, as a Grade 1 you still need to get META (including 50 hours multi command) and, of course have a current CIR, in order to instruct for multi-engine instrument ratings.

Bizz, yep you've got the wrong end of the stick. An instructor needs 50 hours multi command to get META, but needs 50 hours multi instruction to be CFI of a school teaching on multi-engine aircraft.

[training wheels]

Originally Posted by bizzybody

I THOURGHT....... that the 50 hours only applied if you were going for a CFI approval
could be wrong and i probably am
Bizz

This is what CAO 40.1.7 says about the 50 hour multi-requirement for META;

9.7 The holder of an instructor rating may give instruction in multi-engined aeroplanes only if he or she has:
(a) at least 50 hours as pilot in command on multi-engined aeroplanes, of
which:

(i) not more than 25 hours was acting in command under supervision;
and
(ii) at least 10 hours was as pilot in command on each type of aeroplane
in which he or she wishes to instruct or any other type that CASA determines to be similar; and

(b) passed an examination conducted by CASA, an approved testing officer or
an approved person; and
(c) holds an aircraft endorsement for the type of aeroplane.

So I gather, even a grade 3 can be granted multi-engine training approval if he or she has 50 hours PIC on twins and has been tested and approved by an ATO.

But am I right in saying a grade 1 can have multi-engine training approval even if they don't have 50 hours twin PIC?

[training wheels]

Originally Posted by Unhinged

So despite 40.1.7, para 11.1, as a Grade 1 you still need to get META (including 50 hours multi command) and, of course have a current CIR, in order to instruct for multi-engine instrument ratings.

Ok, thanks Unhinged .. that's what I wanted to know.

... but, what's the purpose of 40.1.7 paragraph 11.1, then, since paragraph 9.7 would have already covered it?

[Unhinged]

Para 11.1 gives instrument training approval to a Grade 1 instructor with a current command instrument rating.

And, yes, a Grade 2 or 3 can get META in the same way as a Grade 1 would.

A Grade 2 or 3 can also get instrument training approval as a separate approval.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Yep! No doubt about it. If I was looking for ME training, an instructor with <100 hours multi time would be top of my shopping list - NOT!

Dr

[bizzybody]

OUCH!!!
yeah thought i wasnt not quite accurate........ ok so i was fng wrong.

Good thing i dont have an instructors rating then i spose

[Angle of Attack]

Yeah thats right a grade 1 (with current instrument rating) automatically qualifies for IFR training under the IFR flight rules, but grade 2 or 3 can get it with a sepearate approal test (briefing of eg. NDB Approach, and flight test , basically patter an instrument approach in IFR or under hood) takes 30 mins if that. Just checking you dont spiral dive while your doing it and you can fly half decent IFR from R/H seat.

META requires 50 hours in command, regardless of your grade. and you need 10 hours in command on the type you intend to instruct on. So in general ME IFR instructors tend to be fairly experienced unless youve got bucketloads of cash to just fly solo in twins for 50 hours! lol

[training wheels]

Originally Posted by Angle of Attack

META requires 50 hours in command, regardless of your grade.

Thanks again for the clarification.

Cheers!

[wateroff]

Get it in writing!!!!!!

Get it from CASA, from the horses arse, oh mouth.

Had a couple of very juinior/inenxperienced, barely twin endorsed themselves try to 'interpret' the rules to benefit themsleves, which in the end only screwed over a couple of experienced, too-trusting guys.

So if you are not sure get it from CASA with a signature, because they are only going to cover their arse when it all turns pearshape.

Regarding twin instructing with farkall twin time - -- are u kidding??? What do u have to offer?