Why don't they just say "No Flightwatch"?!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Awstraya
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why don't they just say "No Flightwatch"?!
Have a look at this latest NOTAM. Instead of saying simply outright that there's no Flightwatch staff available AT ALL on any Australian flightwatch frequency at the specified times, they publish this, and make you look through all the frequencies and locations - just in case......Who writes this stuff?
ATS YMMM C3758/07 REVIEW C3690/07
ON-REQUEST FLIGHT INFORMATION (FIS), SARTIME AND EMERGENCY
ALERTING SERVICES NORMALLY PROVIDED BY FLIGHTWATCH ON DISCRETE VHF
FREQUENCIES ARE NOT AVBL
DUE TO STAFF SHORTAGE.
SERVICES AFFECTED:
ON-REQUEST FLIGHT INFORMATION (FIS), SARTIME AND EMERGENCY ALERTING
SERVICES PROVIDED BY FLIGHTWATCH ON DISCRETE VHF FREQUENCIES
118.4 ARGYLE
118.95 MANINGRIDA
119.4 BUNDABERG AND TOWNSVILLE
120.1 GOVE
120.15 TINDAL
120.7 PERTH
121.1 SYDNEY
121.3 WESTERN VICTORIA
121.6 PORT MACQUARIE, WILLIAMTOWN AND SCONE AREAS
122.1 ARMIDALE, GLEN INNES AND COFFS HARBOUR AREAS
122.3 DARWIN
124.0 WALGETT, MOREE, COOLAH AND CAIRNS AREA
124.1 ALICE SPRINGS AND MOUNT ISA AREAS
124.15 PORT HEDLAND
124.95 CENTRAL VICTORIA AND THURSDAY ISLAND AREAS
128.15 NORTHERN NSW AREA
128.2 WHITSUNDAY ISLAND AREA
128.55 MILDURA
128.75 MAROOCHYDORE/BRISBANE AREAS
133.45 ROCKHAMPTON/GLADSTONE AREAS
133.95 ADELAIDE AREA
134.85 MUDGEE AREA
134.9 WHYALLA AREA
135.05 SOUTHERN NSW
135.6 EASTERN VICTORIA
135.75 ADELAIDE
ON-REQUEST FLIGHT INFORMATION (FIS), SARTIME AND EMERG ALERTING
SERVICES AVAILABLE ON ATC FIA FREQUENCIES OR HF (REFER ERSA FAC-B
BRISBANE ACC/FIC AND FAC-M MELBOURNE ACC/FIC).
FROM 09 022200 TO 09 070100 EST
MON TO FRI
2200-0100
I know, maybe I should get out more often.....
ATS YMMM C3758/07 REVIEW C3690/07
ON-REQUEST FLIGHT INFORMATION (FIS), SARTIME AND EMERGENCY
ALERTING SERVICES NORMALLY PROVIDED BY FLIGHTWATCH ON DISCRETE VHF
FREQUENCIES ARE NOT AVBL
DUE TO STAFF SHORTAGE.
SERVICES AFFECTED:
ON-REQUEST FLIGHT INFORMATION (FIS), SARTIME AND EMERGENCY ALERTING
SERVICES PROVIDED BY FLIGHTWATCH ON DISCRETE VHF FREQUENCIES
118.4 ARGYLE
118.95 MANINGRIDA
119.4 BUNDABERG AND TOWNSVILLE
120.1 GOVE
120.15 TINDAL
120.7 PERTH
121.1 SYDNEY
121.3 WESTERN VICTORIA
121.6 PORT MACQUARIE, WILLIAMTOWN AND SCONE AREAS
122.1 ARMIDALE, GLEN INNES AND COFFS HARBOUR AREAS
122.3 DARWIN
124.0 WALGETT, MOREE, COOLAH AND CAIRNS AREA
124.1 ALICE SPRINGS AND MOUNT ISA AREAS
124.15 PORT HEDLAND
124.95 CENTRAL VICTORIA AND THURSDAY ISLAND AREAS
128.15 NORTHERN NSW AREA
128.2 WHITSUNDAY ISLAND AREA
128.55 MILDURA
128.75 MAROOCHYDORE/BRISBANE AREAS
133.45 ROCKHAMPTON/GLADSTONE AREAS
133.95 ADELAIDE AREA
134.85 MUDGEE AREA
134.9 WHYALLA AREA
135.05 SOUTHERN NSW
135.6 EASTERN VICTORIA
135.75 ADELAIDE
ON-REQUEST FLIGHT INFORMATION (FIS), SARTIME AND EMERG ALERTING
SERVICES AVAILABLE ON ATC FIA FREQUENCIES OR HF (REFER ERSA FAC-B
BRISBANE ACC/FIC AND FAC-M MELBOURNE ACC/FIC).
FROM 09 022200 TO 09 070100 EST
MON TO FRI
2200-0100
I know, maybe I should get out more often.....
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in the classroom of life
Age: 55
Posts: 6,864
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
And a few times when asking CEN for something they say...contact F/W on XYZ.ABC............but they are not there!
Staff shortages........thats a can of worms!
J
Staff shortages........thats a can of worms!
J
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hiding between the Animal Bar and the Suave Bar
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AIP SUP H62/07
http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/.../aip.asp?pg=50
Separate Flightwatch VHF frequencies are going away.
Back to the future ...
http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/.../aip.asp?pg=50
Separate Flightwatch VHF frequencies are going away.
Back to the future ...
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Third Barstool on the left
Posts: 449
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok guys - we are in the lead-up to an election.
Surely someone can pull a Dick Smith or a Boyd Munro (sorry Boyd) and put themselves in a situation where they needed the information from FW and couldn't get it, had to divert?
I am thinking maybe couldn't get updated TAF/NOTAMs, had to divert 100's of km's away, lucky I am such a professional pilot and held enough fuel, yada yada, gross inconvenience and a safety issue for people in Rural and Regional Australia... yada yada...
Anyone flying Warren Truss or Mark Vaile around in a Metro of Chieftain any time soon?..... Dieter?
Any volunteers? .... no not me, I'm busy...
Surely someone can pull a Dick Smith or a Boyd Munro (sorry Boyd) and put themselves in a situation where they needed the information from FW and couldn't get it, had to divert?
I am thinking maybe couldn't get updated TAF/NOTAMs, had to divert 100's of km's away, lucky I am such a professional pilot and held enough fuel, yada yada, gross inconvenience and a safety issue for people in Rural and Regional Australia... yada yada...
Anyone flying Warren Truss or Mark Vaile around in a Metro of Chieftain any time soon?..... Dieter?
Any volunteers? .... no not me, I'm busy...
Last edited by Bendo; 2nd Sep 2007 at 13:17. Reason: Shirking
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in the classroom of life
Age: 55
Posts: 6,864
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Only time I have succeeded in the last 4 years was recently, and boy was she sweet as......could not think of enough questions to ask to keep her on the line.
Besides the delightful sound, she was also very helpful too
J
.Besides the delightful sound, she was also very helpful too
J
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On a related subject, see this announcement from Vaille:
http://www.ministers.dotars.gov.au/m...139MV_2007.htm
Remind me again why they did away with Flight Service Units and AFIZs?
It certainly explains why they never demolished the old FSU building at Dubbo, they had this planned!
http://www.ministers.dotars.gov.au/m...139MV_2007.htm
Remind me again why they did away with Flight Service Units and AFIZs?
It certainly explains why they never demolished the old FSU building at Dubbo, they had this planned!
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: A pothole on the information superhighway
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What happens after the trial period? The airport owners couldn't be forced to take them over.
I don't see the purpose of the trial. Those airport operators and/or mining companies that want UNICOMs have already put them in. I also don't know why Air Services would want to get involved with UNICOMs. Wouldn't they be a guaranteed loss-maker for Air Services?
Maybe they've been told to put them in - someone influencing the minister's office perhaps?
I don't see the purpose of the trial. Those airport operators and/or mining companies that want UNICOMs have already put them in. I also don't know why Air Services would want to get involved with UNICOMs. Wouldn't they be a guaranteed loss-maker for Air Services?
Maybe they've been told to put them in - someone influencing the minister's office perhaps?
Sprucegoose
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hughes Point, where life is great! Was also resident on page 13, but now I'm lost in Cyberspace....
Age: 59
Posts: 3,485
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
It certainly explains why they never demolished the old FSU building at Dubbo, they had this planned!
Geez, it's obvious that ASA wouldn't WANT to establish these. If they can't afford pot plants, they wouldn't want to be paying for Flight Service Units ... opps, sorry, Unicoms.
This has the smell of Australian made peanut butter all over it
This has the smell of Australian made peanut butter all over it
Can't wait for the money saved from this Management decision to be passed on to the user.....yeah right
What the user will get is an even busier ATC frequency where instead of being seperated we will be listening to someone to lazy to flight plan on the ground try and do it in the air.
Sounds like a systemic error waiting for someone....of course the DH who made the decision will be enjoying whatever bonus he got for making our jobs even harder. (Both ATC and pilots)
What the user will get is an even busier ATC frequency where instead of being seperated we will be listening to someone to lazy to flight plan on the ground try and do it in the air.
Sounds like a systemic error waiting for someone....of course the DH who made the decision will be enjoying whatever bonus he got for making our jobs even harder. (Both ATC and pilots)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: A previous life
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A little bit more hits the fan!
Flightwatch on VHF was closed yesterday afternoon due to staff shortage. I guess that this would justify the spin in AIPSUP 72 that says that moving the service on to a busy ATC sector will make it more efficient (especially as FIS is a secondary and workload dependent function) - what a fraud this all is particularly as they are talking about trialing Unicom with extra hired staff! - wakeup to yourself Airservices - you created the staff shortage by letting the staff go!
I would be interested to hear from folks as to how you got on with FIS requests from the ATC sector you were flying in during the closure of Flightwatch VHF yesterday. Was the controller able to give what you wanted or did you get told to "contact Flightwatch"?
I know that HF equipped folks can still call Flightwatch direct, but that is pretty busy at times and hard to get a word in particularly in the top end.
I would be interested to hear from folks as to how you got on with FIS requests from the ATC sector you were flying in during the closure of Flightwatch VHF yesterday. Was the controller able to give what you wanted or did you get told to "contact Flightwatch"?
I know that HF equipped folks can still call Flightwatch direct, but that is pretty busy at times and hard to get a word in particularly in the top end.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Orstralia
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Things are obviously tight in FW. I had two aircraft trying to submit IFR flight plans to me between Mildura and Moorabbin last week. I said no because I was too busy, call FW. FW told them they were too busy call ATC. They seemed incredulous they couldn't get a plan in, but I had other stuff to do; don't know what FW's excuse was, or why they couldn't do it on the phone before they left.
Things calmed down a bit within 20 minutes so I told them to go ahead. FW were still 'busy'.
Talking as a pilot though, if 'on-request' or 'lower priority' or 'add-on' services like radar traffic on VFR to IFR are always available, even during peak periods, then the customers are being overserviced, so it is GOOD if such is not available from time to time
Things calmed down a bit within 20 minutes so I told them to go ahead. FW were still 'busy'.
Talking as a pilot though, if 'on-request' or 'lower priority' or 'add-on' services like radar traffic on VFR to IFR are always available, even during peak periods, then the customers are being overserviced, so it is GOOD if such is not available from time to time
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Answer to original question...
...Because "No Flightwatch" is not correct.
Only Flightwatch provided on discrete frequencies is not available....and to help in understanding that, the discrete FW freqs and the areas they cover are listed.
The opening sentence sums it up pretty well...
"ON-REQUEST FLIGHT INFORMATION (FIS), SARTIME AND EMERGENCY
ALERTING SERVICES NORMALLY PROVIDED BY FLIGHTWATCH ON DISCRETE VHF FREQUENCIES ARE NOT AVBL"
**All** flightwatch services **are** available on ATC FIA frequencies and
HF as indicated by the closing words...
"ON-REQUEST FLIGHT INFORMATION (FIS), SARTIME AND EMERG ALERTING
SERVICES AVAILABLE ON ATC FIA FREQUENCIES OR HF (REFER ERSA FAC-B BRISBANE ACC/FIC AND FAC-M MELBOURNE ACC/FIC)"
...Because "No Flightwatch" is not correct.
Only Flightwatch provided on discrete frequencies is not available....and to help in understanding that, the discrete FW freqs and the areas they cover are listed.
The opening sentence sums it up pretty well...
"ON-REQUEST FLIGHT INFORMATION (FIS), SARTIME AND EMERGENCY
ALERTING SERVICES NORMALLY PROVIDED BY FLIGHTWATCH ON DISCRETE VHF FREQUENCIES ARE NOT AVBL"
**All** flightwatch services **are** available on ATC FIA frequencies and
HF as indicated by the closing words...
"ON-REQUEST FLIGHT INFORMATION (FIS), SARTIME AND EMERG ALERTING
SERVICES AVAILABLE ON ATC FIA FREQUENCIES OR HF (REFER ERSA FAC-B BRISBANE ACC/FIC AND FAC-M MELBOURNE ACC/FIC)"
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking forward to returning to Japan soon but in the meantime continuing the never ending search for a bad bottle of Red!
Age: 69
Posts: 2,976
Received 105 Likes
on
60 Posts
It certainly explains why they never demolished the old FSU building at Dubbo, they had this planned!
Not to mention many others around the country still vacant....
Not to mention many others around the country still vacant....
And so the buildings remain, empty!!
I stand to be corrected of course!
I'm in one of those moods
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: SFC to A085
Posts: 759
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
... and before Big L's Leadsled .... lob's in espousing the biblical pronouncements according to D.B.B council of elders 
.
He would say:-
.
... " where is the CBA and RA for the removal of
.... which is further loading 'Air Traffic Control' frequencies!"
.
... ye scurvy dogs arrrgh
.
.. lordie lordie ... dis must be the twilight zone 
.
He would say:-
.
... " where is the CBA and RA for the removal of
DISCRETE VHF FREQUENCIES
.
... ye scurvy dogs arrrgh
.
.. lordie lordie ... dis must be the twilight zone
Scurvy,
I'm sure if you looked hard enough you'd find a CBA and I'm sure they have held a HAZID or two ... but, the reality is ... a "well led" HAZID and a "well written" CBA can provide the "required goods" most of the time.
I'm sure if you looked hard enough you'd find a CBA and I'm sure they have held a HAZID or two ... but, the reality is ... a "well led" HAZID and a "well written" CBA can provide the "required goods" most of the time.
For instance, the buildings which formerly housed the FSU at YLEC are still there, still vacant and whilst there have been a few approaches made to CASA
I think you will find that the buildings aren't owned by CASA, but by the company that own the town. ETSA, NRG, Flinders Power or whatever they call themselves these days!
DF.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking forward to returning to Japan soon but in the meantime continuing the never ending search for a bad bottle of Red!
Age: 69
Posts: 2,976
Received 105 Likes
on
60 Posts
Mea Culpa
I think you will find that the buildings aren't owned by CASA, but by the company that own the town. ETSA, NRG, Flinders Power or whatever they call themselves these days!
DF.
DF.
But I still think that it was a crime to close the FSUs!!!!!
