Interesting story for anyone who flies IFR in a single!
Thread Starter
Interesting story for anyone who flies IFR in a single!
I have flown nothing much other than the FTDK for the last 500 hrs, so I for the first time in 35 yrs of flying I am pretty much in tune with this one aeroplane.
I normally use a 1200 rpm idle, and at that the suction warning light is not illuminated.
Last week, taxying in from a flight from "The Curry" I noticed the suction warning light illuminated at 1200 rpm and I thought "that's interesting". Had to increase rpm to 1300 to extinguish it.
"Its never done that before I thought to myself!"
Today, about half way into a flight from Townsville to Atherton while in VMC in top, the suction light illuminated, suction guage went down to zero.
Scratch one vac pump - and I only have one!
Fortunately I do have an electric standby AH and a couple of GPSs to steer by.
I have had some harsh words to say about Cairns ATC in the past, but I would like to thank the Centre controller on 120.15 and the CS Appr controller who was on late this afternoon for your help. Good one guys!
A couple of vectors and a descent to radar lowest safe got me safely down through the overcast.
B*gger it! Now I have to grope my way home tomorrow VFR.
Moral of the story is: if your vac pump needs higher than normal rpm to extinguish the low suction light - it may be about to sh*t itself.
Always carry a couple of covers for the AH and Gyro Compass. I was wandering around a bit until I wacked sticky covers (which I carry) over these.
Dr
PS: Anyone have any experience with the new "super dooper" long life vac pumps (see Global Aviation) over the standard garden variety?
I normally use a 1200 rpm idle, and at that the suction warning light is not illuminated.
Last week, taxying in from a flight from "The Curry" I noticed the suction warning light illuminated at 1200 rpm and I thought "that's interesting". Had to increase rpm to 1300 to extinguish it.
"Its never done that before I thought to myself!"
Today, about half way into a flight from Townsville to Atherton while in VMC in top, the suction light illuminated, suction guage went down to zero.
Scratch one vac pump - and I only have one!
Fortunately I do have an electric standby AH and a couple of GPSs to steer by.
I have had some harsh words to say about Cairns ATC in the past, but I would like to thank the Centre controller on 120.15 and the CS Appr controller who was on late this afternoon for your help. Good one guys!
A couple of vectors and a descent to radar lowest safe got me safely down through the overcast.
B*gger it! Now I have to grope my way home tomorrow VFR.
Moral of the story is: if your vac pump needs higher than normal rpm to extinguish the low suction light - it may be about to sh*t itself.
Always carry a couple of covers for the AH and Gyro Compass. I was wandering around a bit until I wacked sticky covers (which I carry) over these.
Dr
PS: Anyone have any experience with the new "super dooper" long life vac pumps (see Global Aviation) over the standard garden variety?
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FTDK,
I'm on my third one in 300 hours. Seems they had a problem with the mk1 and mk2 versions. Hopefully the mk3 version will go the 2000 hr guarantee!
My son had one of them fail on a Angelflight in IFR. The electric AH (Castleberry bought at Oshkosh last year) made life easier, but as you said, it was disconcerting without the u/s instruments blanked off!
I'm on my third one in 300 hours. Seems they had a problem with the mk1 and mk2 versions. Hopefully the mk3 version will go the 2000 hr guarantee!
My son had one of them fail on a Angelflight in IFR. The electric AH (Castleberry bought at Oshkosh last year) made life easier, but as you said, it was disconcerting without the u/s instruments blanked off!
Anyone remember back in the 80's when auto pollution equipment on many cars included a vane type air pump to pump air into the exhaust manifold to allow combustion to continue....... blah blah blah
How is it the the japanese can make an auto air pump which NEVER has to be replaced during the life of the car and yet aircraft are stuck with these stupid dry vacuum pumps?
There's gotta be many better ways to get a source of pressure or vacuum in the cockpit.
How is it the the japanese can make an auto air pump which NEVER has to be replaced during the life of the car and yet aircraft are stuck with these stupid dry vacuum pumps?
There's gotta be many better ways to get a source of pressure or vacuum in the cockpit.
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Just a thought for those with single vac pumps etc. I know of a few IFR machines that have a non TSO'd instrument for backup, some actually fly off this instrument and carry the others for legal obligation.
The recent flight into space by the Rutan Spaceship One was done with the Dynon D10A.
I have one and its brilliant.
CASA have also approved them for fitment as a backup in IFR a/c.
I would strongly urge anyone not having one as a backup that flies IFR to consider them. They are not expensive at all, and are very reliable. Ours has seen over 500 hrs run time and nil defects. If you want the compass function to be accurate I would suggest fitting the external mag flux compass though.
Model D10A
http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/D10A_intro.html
News from CASA http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/ne...alia_casa.html
J
The recent flight into space by the Rutan Spaceship One was done with the Dynon D10A.
I have one and its brilliant.
CASA have also approved them for fitment as a backup in IFR a/c.
I would strongly urge anyone not having one as a backup that flies IFR to consider them. They are not expensive at all, and are very reliable. Ours has seen over 500 hrs run time and nil defects. If you want the compass function to be accurate I would suggest fitting the external mag flux compass though.
Model D10A
http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/D10A_intro.html
News from CASA http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/ne...alia_casa.html
J
Thread Starter
Jaba
The Dynon is a great bit of gear, but unfortunately it would not have helped me much.
I have a TSO's electric 2nd AH, so which way is up was not an issue. Also I can fly around quite happily on partial panel anyway, although doing it for real may have got a bit of adrenaline flowing. I would however not recommend to anyone flying IFR in a single that they rely on partial panel to get themselves out of strife.
The GNS430 and the GPSMap296 were both still functioning so I could still find my way around OK and would have flown an Appr if necessary.
The biggest issue for me is losing my co-pilot George! He is a great mate and I would much prefer to sit there an watch him fly the aeroplane.
I do recurrent training with an ATO every 6 months or so between renewals. He makes me hand fly all the approaches for my renewals.
Dr
The Dynon is a great bit of gear, but unfortunately it would not have helped me much.
I have a TSO's electric 2nd AH, so which way is up was not an issue. Also I can fly around quite happily on partial panel anyway, although doing it for real may have got a bit of adrenaline flowing. I would however not recommend to anyone flying IFR in a single that they rely on partial panel to get themselves out of strife.
The GNS430 and the GPSMap296 were both still functioning so I could still find my way around OK and would have flown an Appr if necessary.
The biggest issue for me is losing my co-pilot George! He is a great mate and I would much prefer to sit there an watch him fly the aeroplane.
I do recurrent training with an ATO every 6 months or so between renewals. He makes me hand fly all the approaches for my renewals.
Dr
How is it the the japanese can make an auto air pump which NEVER has to be replaced during the life of the car and yet aircraft are stuck with these stupid dry vacuum pumps?
I have had wet vac pumps on my 185s. They can be as unreliable as dry pumps. They give no warning when they are about to fail and are very expensive to O/H.
The Cessna Pilots Association has a long running thread on their forum detailing the problems and associated short operating life of the piston vacuum pumps. Some are only lasting a few hours, some about sixty, and that includes the C revision.
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Vibration
I remember one C206 that kept blowing dry vac pumps. Some only lasted abour 50 hours, and no-one could figure out what was going on, until one day a clever LAME re-balanced the prop, and the problem went away.
Thread Starter
Its this one that I am particularly interested in.
The Sigmatek AEON dry vacuum pump is a radical new design, warranted for a full 2,000 hours or 5 years. The problem carbon vanes and rotor found in other pumps have been replaced with a piston pump that runs significantly cooler than older designs, thus ensuring long life.
Dr
The Sigmatek AEON dry vacuum pump is a radical new design, warranted for a full 2,000 hours or 5 years. The problem carbon vanes and rotor found in other pumps have been replaced with a piston pump that runs significantly cooler than older designs, thus ensuring long life.
Dr
I've often wondered why these a/c seem to have the "primary" instruments (the AI and DG) powered by air, and the T&B is electric (not allowed to be powered by the same source).
Why not the other way around. I have had more failed vac. pumps than I care to remember, but only ever two failed T&B. And while I'm at it, why these pin head sized suction gauges (Cessna), hidden behind the co-pilots control column.
And if the "electric" instrument fails, it is usually the instrument itself at fault, not a failure of electric power supply. When you drop a vac pump, you now (typically) have two perfectly good instruments deprived of vacuum, thus rendered useless. Both of them.
Does it go back to the days of venturi derived suction (almost impossible to fail) when electrics also probably weren't what they are today?
I once had a vac pump replaced, then taxied away, took off, got no more than 20 miles away and had to turn around - the "new" pump had just failed. Less than one hour. But wait - I told the LAME when I pulled up that it had just crapped itself, and his remark? He had one he'd just fitted fail in the runup bay yesterday...
Also once saw the vac gauge the second it dropped to zero. Day VMC, so I flew along casually watching the AH and DG. After a few minutes they went ABSOLUTELY HAYWIRE BEZERK. Spinning and toppling and carrying on. To fly in IMC with that happening in front of you would have to be impossible. That aircraft was due to be dispatched the next day on night freight... Thank God it didn't last one more day or someone would've had an interesting time.
CR.
Why not the other way around. I have had more failed vac. pumps than I care to remember, but only ever two failed T&B. And while I'm at it, why these pin head sized suction gauges (Cessna), hidden behind the co-pilots control column.
And if the "electric" instrument fails, it is usually the instrument itself at fault, not a failure of electric power supply. When you drop a vac pump, you now (typically) have two perfectly good instruments deprived of vacuum, thus rendered useless. Both of them.
Does it go back to the days of venturi derived suction (almost impossible to fail) when electrics also probably weren't what they are today?
I once had a vac pump replaced, then taxied away, took off, got no more than 20 miles away and had to turn around - the "new" pump had just failed. Less than one hour. But wait - I told the LAME when I pulled up that it had just crapped itself, and his remark? He had one he'd just fitted fail in the runup bay yesterday...
Also once saw the vac gauge the second it dropped to zero. Day VMC, so I flew along casually watching the AH and DG. After a few minutes they went ABSOLUTELY HAYWIRE BEZERK. Spinning and toppling and carrying on. To fly in IMC with that happening in front of you would have to be impossible. That aircraft was due to be dispatched the next day on night freight... Thank God it didn't last one more day or someone would've had an interesting time.
CR.
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FTDK - Just talking to a maintenance organisation today who specialises in the Bonanza and owner was running around checking all the dry vac pumps on the shelf, as some notice has come out about non overhaulable pumps being overhauled and put into the market. Can chase up exact details if you wish.
Grandpa Aerotart
Hey FTDK....I recently sent an email to my maintenance org to check whether my vac pump is wet or dry type...it has never let me down in 7 years and wet vac pumps were commonly fitted to 60s Bonanzas and other aircraft...and commonly last indefinately.
Wet vac pumps lost out to dry vac pumps because dry were so cheap and OEMs favoured them...so they died a death in the 60s...there is a company in the states manufacturing wet pumps again.
Seems the only downside to wet vac pumps is an oily belly...hence an air/oil seperator is also perhaps desirable. My Bo's belly gets a little oily so perhaps I have a wet vac pump.
While NOT cheap they seem to me to be good value for money.
If my vac pump turns out to be a wet type I'll be VERY happy.
Wet vac pumps lost out to dry vac pumps because dry were so cheap and OEMs favoured them...so they died a death in the 60s...there is a company in the states manufacturing wet pumps again.
Seems the only downside to wet vac pumps is an oily belly...hence an air/oil seperator is also perhaps desirable. My Bo's belly gets a little oily so perhaps I have a wet vac pump.
While NOT cheap they seem to me to be good value for money.
If my vac pump turns out to be a wet type I'll be VERY happy.
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 8th Aug 2007 at 09:41.
Thread Starter
Chuckles
My Bo gets "dirty belly" but definitely has a dry vac pump. Doesn't use much oil but seems to blow enough oil vapour to ensure an oily underside.
The wet vac sounds interesting, will look into it.
The dry pump that quit yesterday was at least 3 yrs and 500+ hrs old. Don't have the books here to check when it was installed
I have had many vac pump failures over the years, including one on a pitch black night (due smoke) while on NVFR test nav.
Have had one electric AH fail (in this aeroplane) and two total electric falures (not this aeoplane).
I have my bases pretty well covered, but can you really have too much redundancy?
Brian A - would appreciate the details thanks.
Dr
My Bo gets "dirty belly" but definitely has a dry vac pump. Doesn't use much oil but seems to blow enough oil vapour to ensure an oily underside.
The wet vac sounds interesting, will look into it.
The dry pump that quit yesterday was at least 3 yrs and 500+ hrs old. Don't have the books here to check when it was installed
I have had many vac pump failures over the years, including one on a pitch black night (due smoke) while on NVFR test nav.
Have had one electric AH fail (in this aeroplane) and two total electric falures (not this aeoplane).
I have my bases pretty well covered, but can you really have too much redundancy?
Brian A - would appreciate the details thanks.
Dr
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 8th Aug 2007 at 09:38.
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We used to have the same problem with vac pumps until we got the prop balanced. I remember some aircraft fitted with a venturi style vacuum system. This would get rid of any failures of the engine or pump type.