Vacating a level
A typical letdown onto the TL ILS
ME: TL Appr, XXX maintaining 9000, on top, copied Z
TL Appr: XXX when ready descend to 7000
ME: 7000 when ready, XXX
ME: XXX left 9000
TL Appr: XXX roger
ME: XXX maintaining 7000
TL Appr: XXX roger
TL Appr: XXX descend to 5200
ME: 5200, XXX
ME: XXX left 7000
TL Appr: XXX roger
ME: XXX maintaining 5200
TL Appr: XXX roger
TLAppr: XXX descend to 4000
ME: 4000 XXX
ME: XXX left 4000
TL Appr: XXX roger
ME: XXX maintaining 4000
TL Appr: XXX roger
TL Appr: XXX descend to 3500
ME: XXX 3500
ME: XXX left 4000
TL Appr: XXX roger
ME: XXX maintaining 3500
TL Appr: XXX, cleared for the TL 01 ILS-Z appr, make pilot intercept of the localiser, call the tower 118.3 leaving 3500
Interesting concept!
Dr
ME: TL Appr, XXX maintaining 9000, on top, copied Z
TL Appr: XXX when ready descend to 7000
ME: 7000 when ready, XXX
ME: XXX left 9000
TL Appr: XXX roger
ME: XXX maintaining 7000
TL Appr: XXX roger
TL Appr: XXX descend to 5200
ME: 5200, XXX
ME: XXX left 7000
TL Appr: XXX roger
ME: XXX maintaining 5200
TL Appr: XXX roger
TLAppr: XXX descend to 4000
ME: 4000 XXX
ME: XXX left 4000
TL Appr: XXX roger
ME: XXX maintaining 4000
TL Appr: XXX roger
TL Appr: XXX descend to 3500
ME: XXX 3500
ME: XXX left 4000
TL Appr: XXX roger
ME: XXX maintaining 3500
TL Appr: XXX, cleared for the TL 01 ILS-Z appr, make pilot intercept of the localiser, call the tower 118.3 leaving 3500
Interesting concept!
Dr
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 26th Jul 2007 at 02:51.
FTDK
It needn't be quite so wordy.
TL: ABC When ready descend to 7000.
You: Descend to 7000 ABC.
Later...
You: ABC Left 9000.
TL: ABC.
Subsequent descent steps needn't be maintained but flown at a constant descent profile. Work out at what DME you will cleared lower (check the CTA steps) and plan to be approaching each level as the next lower clearance is delivered.
Then, all you need do is continually descend whilst accepted the lower clearances.
TL Appr: XXX descend to 5200
ME: 5200, XXX
.....
TLAppr: XXX descend to 4000
ME: 4000 XXX
.....
TL Appr: XXX descend to 3500
ME: XXX 3500
And then you will be happily sliding down the ILS in no time without so many interactions!
Hope that helps!
It needn't be quite so wordy.
TL: ABC When ready descend to 7000.
You: Descend to 7000 ABC.
Later...
You: ABC Left 9000.
TL: ABC.
Subsequent descent steps needn't be maintained but flown at a constant descent profile. Work out at what DME you will cleared lower (check the CTA steps) and plan to be approaching each level as the next lower clearance is delivered.
Then, all you need do is continually descend whilst accepted the lower clearances.
TL Appr: XXX descend to 5200
ME: 5200, XXX
.....
TLAppr: XXX descend to 4000
ME: 4000 XXX
.....
TL Appr: XXX descend to 3500
ME: XXX 3500
And then you will be happily sliding down the ILS in no time without so many interactions!
Hope that helps!
Last edited by YMML; 26th Jul 2007 at 00:38.
When you live....
Doc,
Prepared to be shot down in flames as I don't have AIP handy but you don't need to report all of the 'maintainings' when you reach the cleared level in a radar environment. The 'lefts' are relevant as has been pointed out as you're operating at your own discretion but unless requested to report maintaining - don't!
UTR.
Prepared to be shot down in flames as I don't have AIP handy but you don't need to report all of the 'maintainings' when you reach the cleared level in a radar environment. The 'lefts' are relevant as has been pointed out as you're operating at your own discretion but unless requested to report maintaining - don't!
UTR.
UtR
You won't get any argument from me, and I don't say all the "maintainings" but post above seem to indicate that I should.
As it is not particularly complex to get the average GA aircraft headed down, I used to add the "left XXX" to the end of the new level readback unless there was going to be some delay to my descent. However, as few others do in this part of the world, I stopped.
Dr
You won't get any argument from me, and I don't say all the "maintainings" but post above seem to indicate that I should.
As it is not particularly complex to get the average GA aircraft headed down, I used to add the "left XXX" to the end of the new level readback unless there was going to be some delay to my descent. However, as few others do in this part of the world, I stopped.
Dr
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What AIP says
ENR 1.1 -18 10. ENROUTE
10.3.5 In non-radar CTA, pilots must report maintaining an assigned
level. An IFR flight operating VFR-on-top or requesting IFR Pickup
must advise level maintaining.
ENR 1.1 - 78 60. CLIMB AND CRUISE PROCEDURES
60.4 Pilots must report maintaining an assigned level.
60.5 After any en route frequency change, a pilot in command of an IFR
flight must advise present level. If the aircraft is not at its planned
cruising level, the pilot must also provide advice of the level to
which the aircraft is being climbed.
10.3.5 In non-radar CTA, pilots must report maintaining an assigned
level. An IFR flight operating VFR-on-top or requesting IFR Pickup
must advise level maintaining.
ENR 1.1 - 78 60. CLIMB AND CRUISE PROCEDURES
60.4 Pilots must report maintaining an assigned level.
60.5 After any en route frequency change, a pilot in command of an IFR
flight must advise present level. If the aircraft is not at its planned
cruising level, the pilot must also provide advice of the level to
which the aircraft is being climbed.
Personally I prefer "approaching FLXXX"; but not when you're still 4000 foot above the level.
FTDK, As an ATC I'd be expecting you to tell me you're leaving A090, but wouldn't be shocked to see you doing so without a call, if I notice at all
. Usually when I'm giving a when ready descent it's based on you not having anyone close in front or below; i.e. if you comply with the descent at your discretion you won't take anyone out; a call telling me to look at you again gives me time to look at you re further descent/position re the steps etc.; it gets my attention again; but so does "approaching A060"; which I'd prefer than "Maintaining A060" (usually with gruff undertones implying it's all my fault). Remember you are but one blip on the scope and my attention may be diverted on a different part of the screen (cause you aren't going to take anyone out); or having an in depth conversation with the tower about the plans with the departures (burst) or talking to arrivals about getting the next sequence better sorted than the last etc. Hopefully my scan will pick up that you have left a level; but then again it may not if it's only 1000 foot change etc.
Sometimes it's hard just because of the actual mode C displayed; A088 and A092 mean the same thing as A090; i.e. within tolerance. So just looking for a A089 isn't "proof" of commenced descent; usually A087 is good enough but it's amazing how many times you see A088, A087, A088 in consecutive paints.
SM4 Pirate
Thanks for that!
I appreciate all elements of your perspective. That's the kind of answer I was looking for.
In actual fact I seem to get around OK without causing chaos, however, I like to fly by-the-book if I can.
Cheers
Dr
Thanks for that!
I appreciate all elements of your perspective. That's the kind of answer I was looking for.
In actual fact I seem to get around OK without causing chaos, however, I like to fly by-the-book if I can.
Cheers
Dr
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 26th Jul 2007 at 08:56.
