Best Air Traffic controller is......
I'm in one of those moods
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Oi .... Papi
... Zephyr ... sounds like some sort of mainland STD 
... and as for the those new fangled morris things ... forget it .. way to many moving parts 
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.. Nup, I'll stick to the GG .... although I do wonder about all this climate change stuff..
…. people (you know the type, those green leaning metroferkinpinkopoof types that frequent this place) are trying to drag us (kicking and screaming … I might add) into the 20th century
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.. I was told the other day that transport generated green house gas emissions are a problem …. so I tried using that ethanol stuff ..
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…. Firkin horse took two days of diggin to bury ….
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I knew I shouldn’t have listened …. both heads were telling me it was a crock
... and as for the those new fangled morris things ... forget it .. way to many moving parts .
.. Nup, I'll stick to the GG .... although I do wonder about all this climate change stuff..
…. people (you know the type, those green leaning metroferkinpinkopoof types that frequent this place) are trying to drag us (kicking and screaming … I might add) into the 20th century .
.. I was told the other day that transport generated green house gas emissions are a problem …. so I tried using that ethanol stuff ..
.
.
.
…. Firkin horse took two days of diggin to bury ….
.
I knew I shouldn’t have listened …. both heads were telling me it was a crock
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Duke of Duchess, have you seen how much traffic uses Perth these days? 20 minutes holding for traffic when there is no traffic, give me a break! Of course ATC will only hold for their amusement as it is so much fun to do. It is not our problem you to battle 100kt headwinds across the Bight but if you want to arrive at the same time as 30-40 aircraft returning to the mines then you will have to wait your turn.
We are getting sick of the quote "what do you mean holding, this is Perth!" Have a look at the property prices to see how much Perth has changed.
If you want us to increase the amount of landing slots available, push the government to allow a proper route structure not dependent on what airspace Pearce want.
We are getting sick of the quote "what do you mean holding, this is Perth!" Have a look at the property prices to see how much Perth has changed.
If you want us to increase the amount of landing slots available, push the government to allow a proper route structure not dependent on what airspace Pearce want.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Hey JET_A_KNIGHT........
"Where's Rodney Rude outta Tamworth Tower these days??"
If Rodney Rude out of Tamworth tower is who I think he is......... try Launceston tower in the middle of Tassie.........
"Where's Rodney Rude outta Tamworth Tower these days??"
If Rodney Rude out of Tamworth tower is who I think he is......... try Launceston tower in the middle of Tassie.........
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Gold Star for HM and MK
I have got to give a mention to the guys that put up with us VFR pop ups in MK and HM.
( I think we used to be "affectionally" reffered to as PINK **** by Binnos , due to the colour of the slip that you pick up to right our details on 
) You guys do bloody well with your Gyro Stabilised Eyeballs ... I' m gonna miss your laid back style 
.... Cheers ( You Know who you are !!)
( I think we used to be "affectionally" reffered to as PINK **** by Binnos , due to the colour of the slip that you pick up to right our details on ) You guys do bloody well with your Gyro Stabilised Eyeballs ... I' m gonna miss your laid back style .... Cheers ( You Know who you are !!)
Yssy Atc
Can any Sydney controllers explain this one? It's happened to me a number of times before but the example the other day was so blatant and frustrating:
AUDLY 2 arrival, approaching NASHO 5500' 250KIAS. Talking to Director.
"XXX cancel STAR, turn left heading 030, descend to 2000, cleared visual approach runway 34L."
Ok, not TOO big a drama but then 30s later:
"XXX reduce to not above 160 knots, SAAB on final, pretty slow"
#&%$!
Guys, this makes life really difficult. It's not impossible but it just really increases our workload. Sure it's almost even fun for us but for a heavy jet to be cut in and slowed down like that, sheesh...
AUDLY 2 arrival, approaching NASHO 5500' 250KIAS. Talking to Director.
"XXX cancel STAR, turn left heading 030, descend to 2000, cleared visual approach runway 34L."
Ok, not TOO big a drama but then 30s later:
"XXX reduce to not above 160 knots, SAAB on final, pretty slow"
#&%$!
Guys, this makes life really difficult. It's not impossible but it just really increases our workload. Sure it's almost even fun for us but for a heavy jet to be cut in and slowed down like that, sheesh...
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Syd Atc
Bug Smasher Smasher.
I don't work SYD but I think you will find that in your situation (and I wasn't there so I could be wrong) that just because you were cleared the VSA didn't mean you were #1. You can be cleared for that VSA approach once you hit 30nm. Quite often you will look at the radar and see that the 5 or 6 you have are going to work naturally and so you wrap everyone up and sit to watch (ok so that never happens... but in a perfect world)
Different companies fly different profiles and different pilots within the one company will fly differently to his mate who just landed. You can bet your bones that the controller looked at the situation thought "this will work" wrapped you up and then saw the guy in front slow down on final.
If as you say the SAAB was cut in. More than likely it was (and I wasn't there) because if the SAAB didn't go there then he had to hold and we don't like doing that. It isn't easy when everything in the sky is point at one point. Much easier when they are outbound!...mind you they all come back at some point
We do the best we can and trust me you might think that it buggers you around, but not so much as it does if we lose our standard or if you run up the tail of the guy in front because we didn't want to bugger you around.
We don't put speed restrictions on "for controller amusement" or so that we have time to finish our doughnut before we have to talk to you again.
Having said that my locals are brilliant and if you need some help to make it work they will do all they can.
I don't work SYD but I think you will find that in your situation (and I wasn't there so I could be wrong) that just because you were cleared the VSA didn't mean you were #1. You can be cleared for that VSA approach once you hit 30nm. Quite often you will look at the radar and see that the 5 or 6 you have are going to work naturally and so you wrap everyone up and sit to watch (ok so that never happens... but in a perfect world)
Different companies fly different profiles and different pilots within the one company will fly differently to his mate who just landed. You can bet your bones that the controller looked at the situation thought "this will work" wrapped you up and then saw the guy in front slow down on final.
If as you say the SAAB was cut in. More than likely it was (and I wasn't there) because if the SAAB didn't go there then he had to hold and we don't like doing that. It isn't easy when everything in the sky is point at one point. Much easier when they are outbound!...mind you they all come back at some point
We do the best we can and trust me you might think that it buggers you around, but not so much as it does if we lose our standard or if you run up the tail of the guy in front because we didn't want to bugger you around.
We don't put speed restrictions on "for controller amusement" or so that we have time to finish our doughnut before we have to talk to you again.
Having said that my locals are brilliant and if you need some help to make it work they will do all they can.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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AUDLY is gone at the end of August; renamed DUDOK or something like that.
Re the slow SAAB; s/he too was probably doing a visual approach; but director expected him to turn tight up Cronulla/Wanda beach, not run through to pick up the centre line south of Kernell; or something like that; what you expect from a visual approach and what you sometimes get is remarkable.
Some days you are the statue, some days the pigeon; on some days, both.
Re the slow SAAB; s/he too was probably doing a visual approach; but director expected him to turn tight up Cronulla/Wanda beach, not run through to pick up the centre line south of Kernell; or something like that; what you expect from a visual approach and what you sometimes get is remarkable.
Some days you are the statue, some days the pigeon; on some days, both.
somniferous: I have no doubt that you guys don't do it just for a laugh or to make life easy for yourselves. I have the utmost respect for you and you kind (have a good friend in your midsts and know well what you guys have to deal with). I'm thinking it was one of those, "Oh bloody hell, how'd Rex get in there?" moments!
so-long and YSSY ATCOs: the AUDLY 2 STAR isn't actually all that bad if we're left to fly the whole procedure and given continuous descent clearances, it works quite well but the 14nm final's overkill.
It'd be GREAT if that one was left for days when instrument approaches were required and on VMC days we were just given the RIVET 8. OR if on VMC days and flying the AUDLY 2 it'd be really helpful to know early (first contact with Director would be sufficient) if we are about to receive track shortening.
Generally it's pretty good fun cutting the corner, disconnecting and doing all that pilot stuff for real, it just means I might not finish my coffee or get that one more number on Sudoku before we land.
SM4 Pirate: ooohh! I eagerly await it's promulgation.
so-long and YSSY ATCOs: the AUDLY 2 STAR isn't actually all that bad if we're left to fly the whole procedure and given continuous descent clearances, it works quite well but the 14nm final's overkill.
It'd be GREAT if that one was left for days when instrument approaches were required and on VMC days we were just given the RIVET 8. OR if on VMC days and flying the AUDLY 2 it'd be really helpful to know early (first contact with Director would be sufficient) if we are about to receive track shortening.
Generally it's pretty good fun cutting the corner, disconnecting and doing all that pilot stuff for real, it just means I might not finish my coffee or get that one more number on Sudoku before we land.
SM4 Pirate: ooohh! I eagerly await it's promulgation.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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bug smasher smasher and jet pilots into SY:
The AUDLY 2 is despised by the controllers who have to work it. It gets cancelled almost all the time because it doesn't work with independent visual approaches (nor a 24/hr arrival rate). So when you get a vector for final near NASHO, that's to ensure you can legally join final close to traffic on final for 34R. If you don't get the vector, the other traffic has to be given extra track miles to follow you, or you get a step descent on that traffic until you're nicely established on the loc.
Here's a tip: every time you come in on the AUDLY 2, expect to cross BOOGI not below 6000 then about 25 track miles, report "Runway 34L in sight" to director, and don't read back the loc freq.
The name change I believe is due to soundalike confusion with the ODALE arrival amongst occasional int'l operators.
A recent internal report on the AUDLY 2 found that aircraft actually use more fuel and take 1-2 minutes longer to get to the threshold when compared with a radar vectored circuit. Just as well controllers cancel it all the time. Go figure... why precisely do airlines want this crap?
The AUDLY 2 is despised by the controllers who have to work it. It gets cancelled almost all the time because it doesn't work with independent visual approaches (nor a 24/hr arrival rate). So when you get a vector for final near NASHO, that's to ensure you can legally join final close to traffic on final for 34R. If you don't get the vector, the other traffic has to be given extra track miles to follow you, or you get a step descent on that traffic until you're nicely established on the loc.
Here's a tip: every time you come in on the AUDLY 2, expect to cross BOOGI not below 6000 then about 25 track miles, report "Runway 34L in sight" to director, and don't read back the loc freq.The name change I believe is due to soundalike confusion with the ODALE arrival amongst occasional int'l operators.
A recent internal report on the AUDLY 2 found that aircraft actually use more fuel and take 1-2 minutes longer to get to the threshold when compared with a radar vectored circuit. Just as well controllers cancel it all the time. Go figure... why precisely do airlines want this crap?
Join Date: Mar 2007
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The guy who cleared me direct to Bolinda from TOC SYD one Christmas Eve a few years back when we told him we needed to get to MEL quickly or else miss out on paxing on the last flight home.
You sir, are a legend!
P.S. we made it!
You sir, are a legend!
P.S. we made it!
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Chucky for sure! ADL APP
Funny today, passing on messages to his daughter (travelling to the U.S via SYD) on QF738
If you were lucky to be on 118.2 when QF738 contacted departures it was an amusing conversation!
Funny today, passing on messages to his daughter (travelling to the U.S via SYD) on QF738
If you were lucky to be on 118.2 when QF738 contacted departures it was an amusing conversation!
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A few pilots have said how bad we are at ATC here in Oz, but some of the problem is definately the rules we have to abide by here. Have a chat to a couple of controllers together, one from overseas and one from here and you will certainly see the difference in separation standards here, especially in procedural airspace. Our Manual of Air Traffic Control has about 150 pages for an aircraft to change levels, it's almost debilitating at times. Talking to two aircraft that you know are 100 NM apart but still having to prove it by getting distance reports or get updated estimates etc, just adds to our frustration at not being able to provide a better service. There are good and bad in all jobs, but bear in mind that all of us (pretty much) are trying to give you the best we can within the rules.
Cheers
FGS
Cheers
FGS
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FGS,
Completely agree, and for what its worth, when you hear most of us on the airborne side of the fence whinge and moan about Sydney having second class ATC, its not the people involved that we are upset about, its the system.
I have no doubt we have some of the most capable and well trained controllers in the world, but the system is still terribly broken and very very inefficient.
I know it works both ways, but I do think a lot can be learned for a controller by asking why do pilots think certain people are better than others. Its not always just because they were cleared direct... there are often other reasons.
My reasons for voting LHR control as some of the best? Very simple. Although there are often significant delays, they are always met with a controller who is calm, collected, usually polite, and most of all keeps us informed. Being kept in the loop really does help.
An example coming into Sydney one morning was being told to maintain present speed (M0.88 in a 744 trying to make up time), then being told that there would be 25 mins of holding. We ask to slow down enroute (still about 20mins before we get to the hold), and are told no, we must maintain max speed until the hold, and then hold for 25 minutes. A longhaul arrival as I'm sure all ATC are aware often have fuel issues, and to be asked to maintain such a high speed and then hold chews through the gas faster than the environmentalists would like to know.
We politely inquired as to why we must maintain max speed, but no answer was forthcoming. It is small things like a bit of information for an unusual requirement like this that can seperate a "technically" good ATC from one that pilots praise and respect, and after all... we can all learn from our peers!
Of course it is not a one way street, and I am more than happy to learn about little things I can do to make an ATC's job easier... but of course the guys who need to learn are the ones that won't listen
Completely agree, and for what its worth, when you hear most of us on the airborne side of the fence whinge and moan about Sydney having second class ATC, its not the people involved that we are upset about, its the system.
I have no doubt we have some of the most capable and well trained controllers in the world, but the system is still terribly broken and very very inefficient.
I know it works both ways, but I do think a lot can be learned for a controller by asking why do pilots think certain people are better than others. Its not always just because they were cleared direct... there are often other reasons.
My reasons for voting LHR control as some of the best? Very simple. Although there are often significant delays, they are always met with a controller who is calm, collected, usually polite, and most of all keeps us informed. Being kept in the loop really does help.
An example coming into Sydney one morning was being told to maintain present speed (M0.88 in a 744 trying to make up time), then being told that there would be 25 mins of holding. We ask to slow down enroute (still about 20mins before we get to the hold), and are told no, we must maintain max speed until the hold, and then hold for 25 minutes. A longhaul arrival as I'm sure all ATC are aware often have fuel issues, and to be asked to maintain such a high speed and then hold chews through the gas faster than the environmentalists would like to know.
We politely inquired as to why we must maintain max speed, but no answer was forthcoming. It is small things like a bit of information for an unusual requirement like this that can seperate a "technically" good ATC from one that pilots praise and respect, and after all... we can all learn from our peers!
Of course it is not a one way street, and I am more than happy to learn about little things I can do to make an ATC's job easier... but of course the guys who need to learn are the ones that won't listen
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I wouldn't want to be an ATC guy/gal for all the tea in China. They do a pretty good job most of the time dealing us out like cards in a rigged poker game! We pilots see only a very small part as to what's really a large picture. Sure I get a little p*ssed off when I get taken for the 'shafted1 arrival' esspecially when it's hot & bumpy & my pax/s aren't feeling too flash, come to think of it they never feel to flash otherwise they wouldn't be in my plane in the first place! I do feel for them though (patients) when I can't justify a Med 1 flight when we are bounced from one end of the sky to the other. But when we do have to go Med 1 then it's rock & roll direct direct
One thing though we do seem to have large gaps (time wise) between ldg's & T/off's compared to OS, why is this?
Keep the good work up guys, yr only human & as long as you keep the "metal-to-metal" noise to a min then we all ought to be very grateful
CW
One thing though we do seem to have large gaps (time wise) between ldg's & T/off's compared to OS, why is this?
Keep the good work up guys, yr only human & as long as you keep the "metal-to-metal" noise to a min then we all ought to be very grateful
CW