Baillieu drama at 6,000 feet
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which was banging on the fuselage of the 10-seater Piper Chieftain
Should never have happened in the first place.
[Sidetrack alert]
Bushy
There was a considerable amount of work done in the mid 80's in Alice re the development of heliboxes for dropping in rescues, and many test drops from Cheiftains with the door removed.
Brian Pepper was the SATC at the time, and I think he's still there in ASP - try the golf club.
[/Sidetrack Alert]
Bushy
There was a considerable amount of work done in the mid 80's in Alice re the development of heliboxes for dropping in rescues, and many test drops from Cheiftains with the door removed.
Brian Pepper was the SATC at the time, and I think he's still there in ASP - try the golf club.
[/Sidetrack Alert]
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Originally Posted by tio540
Hey, most of the GA aircraft doors I have seen need to be slammed, or held shut, then latched.
Pet Hate rant over for the now. It's just the old axiom; look after the gear it'll look after you. Should be tattooed on every pilots arse.
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Kiwiblue
GA aircraft, that have 30 year old doors, are not like your 2 year old Airbus.
I don't believe they ever closed like a Commo'dore'.
Back to the topic - the aircraft should have been grounded at Traralgon, for the benefit of all concerned.
GA aircraft, that have 30 year old doors, are not like your 2 year old Airbus.
I don't believe they ever closed like a Commo'dore'.
Back to the topic - the aircraft should have been grounded at Traralgon, for the benefit of all concerned.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
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I have to agree with Kiwi. I have never seen a pax that can close the door without slamming it as hard as possible. even after just having been briefed NOT TO SLAM THE DOOR AS YOU CLOSE IT
constant slamming will distort the door over time (yeah, thirty years will do it) but we also must keep in mind that the door was never designed to be closed like a car door. Generally they are lightweight affairs and need to be handled in the appropriate manner. Close the door by pulling it closed and holding the weight on it while locking it will work and not wreck your door.
15Yrs of flying and the only door I have had come open was a nose locker door that I never secured properly.
Done heaps of flying with the doors of in all sorts of aircraft (some didn't even have doors or a roof) and never once did I feel like I was in danger of being sucked out of the aircraft.
constant slamming will distort the door over time (yeah, thirty years will do it) but we also must keep in mind that the door was never designed to be closed like a car door. Generally they are lightweight affairs and need to be handled in the appropriate manner. Close the door by pulling it closed and holding the weight on it while locking it will work and not wreck your door.
15Yrs of flying and the only door I have had come open was a nose locker door that I never secured properly.
Done heaps of flying with the doors of in all sorts of aircraft (some didn't even have doors or a roof) and never once did I feel like I was in danger of being sucked out of the aircraft.
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Originally Posted by tio540
GA aircraft, that have 30 year old doors, are not like your 2 year old Airbus.
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Kiwiblue,
I never flew any GA aircraft that were in excellent condition.
Most would agree that a lot of GA operators are unwilling to spend huge amounts of cash to keep their aircraft in A1 condition.
Most I flew, espically the freighters were as rough as guts, some had well over 20000hrs on them, and the doors had to slammed to get them shut properly.
You may say get them fixed, but read above, unless it's going to fall off some of the crooks that own GA companys won't touch them!!!
I never flew any GA aircraft that were in excellent condition.
Most would agree that a lot of GA operators are unwilling to spend huge amounts of cash to keep their aircraft in A1 condition.
Most I flew, espically the freighters were as rough as guts, some had well over 20000hrs on them, and the doors had to slammed to get them shut properly.
You may say get them fixed, but read above, unless it's going to fall off some of the crooks that own GA companys won't touch them!!!
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Sort of comes back to the point though doesn't it the Kavorka. If the doors had been properly cared for and maintained from new by the pilots and pax, the issue would never have arisen. You as a pilot have a responsibility to care for the airframe under your command; if you do your bit, we're all better off.
I'm not going to get into a discussion re operators' failing to ensure a proper repair; again, if you are not happy with it, as PinC it is your responsibility to see that it is written up and if necessary bring pressure to bear to ensure the repair is made.
On one level at least I can sympathise with operators not making complete repairs when they know that the next hour-building 'candidate' (another word was in mind) in the door will not properly address their responsibility to care for the airframe. Would you?
Don't always be looking to someone else to fix your problems. If you accept and properly address the responsibilities that come with your licence then we're all at least one step closer to a better and easier (safer) existence.
It's just the old axiom; look after the gear it'll look after you. Should be tattooed on every pilots arse.
I'm not going to get into a discussion re operators' failing to ensure a proper repair; again, if you are not happy with it, as PinC it is your responsibility to see that it is written up and if necessary bring pressure to bear to ensure the repair is made.
On one level at least I can sympathise with operators not making complete repairs when they know that the next hour-building 'candidate' (another word was in mind) in the door will not properly address their responsibility to care for the airframe. Would you?
Don't always be looking to someone else to fix your problems. If you accept and properly address the responsibilities that come with your licence then we're all at least one step closer to a better and easier (safer) existence.
It's just the old axiom; look after the gear it'll look after you. Should be tattooed on every pilots arse.
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Kiwiblue
I agree totally, but in the real world this does not happen.
Thankfully I have been out of GA for a number of years now and can forget about some of the crap I/we used to put up with..
It is easy to say write up any defect, and I used to alot, but when the owner comes up to you and says "You have really F%$#%d us by grounding this a/c, I suggest you change to it to Written In Error, or find yourself a new job" for a young, broke and deep indebt pilot this can be sometimes very hard...
I agree totally, but in the real world this does not happen.
Thankfully I have been out of GA for a number of years now and can forget about some of the crap I/we used to put up with..
It is easy to say write up any defect, and I used to alot, but when the owner comes up to you and says "You have really F%$#%d us by grounding this a/c, I suggest you change to it to Written In Error, or find yourself a new job" for a young, broke and deep indebt pilot this can be sometimes very hard...
It is easy to say write up any defect, and I used to alot, but when the owner comes up to you and says "You have really F%$#%d us by grounding this a/c, I suggest you change to it to Written In Error, or find yourself a new job" for a young, broke and deep indebt pilot this can be sometimes very hard
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tio540,
Like most everyone else has said, doors on a/c have NEVER closed like your Commodore. FYI, commodores have vents that let the trapped pressure escape when you 'SLAM' the door. Cherokees and most other lighties don't have the same feature, to help reduce wind noise.
HENCE, the harder you slam the door, the HARDER it will be to CLOSE!
Try either opening the storm window to let the air escape, or close the door GENTLY, and in the correct order --- THAT is why the suggestion to not have the passengers close the doors is a good one. The door on my Archer closes just as good now as it did 28 years ago when it was made! Granted maintenance has had to be made along the way, mainly to compensate for the heavy handedness of the unwashed.
Like most everyone else has said, doors on a/c have NEVER closed like your Commodore. FYI, commodores have vents that let the trapped pressure escape when you 'SLAM' the door. Cherokees and most other lighties don't have the same feature, to help reduce wind noise.
HENCE, the harder you slam the door, the HARDER it will be to CLOSE!
Try either opening the storm window to let the air escape, or close the door GENTLY, and in the correct order --- THAT is why the suggestion to not have the passengers close the doors is a good one. The door on my Archer closes just as good now as it did 28 years ago when it was made! Granted maintenance has had to be made along the way, mainly to compensate for the heavy handedness of the unwashed.
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Think about it.
For some strange reason nearly all the door problems are experienced by new pilots. (fact)
In 15,000 hours I had three door problems. Two of these were caused by faulty door mechanisms, and were fixed the same day. The third was finger trouble.
I also operated a number of single engined Pipers, and each one of them had to have the nose locker door repaired, because they had been left unlatched for takeoff. (not faulty until after the event) In each case the pilot was a new CPL holder, in his first year, or a casual pilot. It never happened to the more experienced pilots.
In one instance I closed the baggage locker door on a C210 after the pilot had loaded pax, closed doors and started the engine. He was about to taxi with it open. I wonder if he is one of the posters who is denigrating operators here.
Let's look at this a little closer. Operating an aeroplane is a team effort. The blame game is not usually very productive. We need to think a little harder and work together.
Incidents are usually caused by people.
In 15,000 hours I had three door problems. Two of these were caused by faulty door mechanisms, and were fixed the same day. The third was finger trouble.
I also operated a number of single engined Pipers, and each one of them had to have the nose locker door repaired, because they had been left unlatched for takeoff. (not faulty until after the event) In each case the pilot was a new CPL holder, in his first year, or a casual pilot. It never happened to the more experienced pilots.
In one instance I closed the baggage locker door on a C210 after the pilot had loaded pax, closed doors and started the engine. He was about to taxi with it open. I wonder if he is one of the posters who is denigrating operators here.
Let's look at this a little closer. Operating an aeroplane is a team effort. The blame game is not usually very productive. We need to think a little harder and work together.
Incidents are usually caused by people.
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Dear Chairman
I'm sorry, but your Archer door has little in common with a Chieftain passenger split door. It also has 18,000 hours, and flies 5 sectors per day, 6 days per week.
The reference to the Commo'dore' was my comparison, don't quote me my own text.
I also do not damage doors, nor do they open in flight.
Should we return to the bar, and discuss the actual topic of the post?
I'm sorry, but your Archer door has little in common with a Chieftain passenger split door. It also has 18,000 hours, and flies 5 sectors per day, 6 days per week.
The reference to the Commo'dore' was my comparison, don't quote me my own text.
I also do not damage doors, nor do they open in flight.
Should we return to the bar, and discuss the actual topic of the post?
In each case the pilot was a new CPL holder, in his first year, or a casual pilot. It never happened to the more experienced pilots.
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????
This is quite right. I think we did a little better than the other operators on the field, but it still happened.
Centaurus will now share with us the magic that is needed to prevent door incidents. He may also tell us which airlines have 200 hour temporary pilots as captains.
Centaurus will now share with us the magic that is needed to prevent door incidents. He may also tell us which airlines have 200 hour temporary pilots as captains.
Centaurus will now share with us the magic that is needed to prevent door incidents. He may also tell us which airlines have 200 hour temporary pilots as captains
