Some questions worth asking regarding cadetship
Thread Starter
Some questions worth asking regarding cadetship
I have a few questions regarding the latest QF cadetship...
1) Any cadets able to indicate the approximate weekly wage once in the cumpulsory industry placement?
2) Which employers are normally used as the industry placement participants (I know Air North are one)?
3) Regarding the shortage of pilots is it realistic to expect strong support and applicants for the cadetship given that the 2 year CIP still exists and it is highly possible to obtain the 500 PIC for direct entry in 1 year?
Look forward to your responses on the aforementioned.
1) Any cadets able to indicate the approximate weekly wage once in the cumpulsory industry placement?
2) Which employers are normally used as the industry placement participants (I know Air North are one)?
3) Regarding the shortage of pilots is it realistic to expect strong support and applicants for the cadetship given that the 2 year CIP still exists and it is highly possible to obtain the 500 PIC for direct entry in 1 year?
Look forward to your responses on the aforementioned.
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First of all, you can bet from now on that almost all cadets will be going to QANTASLink (EAA or SSA). There may be a couple that go to the existing employers (Air North, Skippers, ******, Jetstar Asia, O'Connors), but given that QL is recruiting like mad at the moment you can bet that they will be taking on the lions share that come out of this "new" QANTAS training organisation.
Wages for these employers range $40-50k. About 50 for QLink FO.
Second, you won't be getting 500 PIC through the placement. Generally, FO time is logged as Co-pilot, with ICUS when you undergo command training. In theory, you could leave the program any time you like and apply elsewhere in the industry, but unless you had a heap of PIC before going into the program (before doing an IR?), I don't think you'll have much luck.
Hope this is helpful - there is plenty of info through other threads, but the program is about to change significantly in terms of numbers through and training providers, so there might be a bit of "lag" in info.
Wages for these employers range $40-50k. About 50 for QLink FO.
Second, you won't be getting 500 PIC through the placement. Generally, FO time is logged as Co-pilot, with ICUS when you undergo command training. In theory, you could leave the program any time you like and apply elsewhere in the industry, but unless you had a heap of PIC before going into the program (before doing an IR?), I don't think you'll have much luck.
Hope this is helpful - there is plenty of info through other threads, but the program is about to change significantly in terms of numbers through and training providers, so there might be a bit of "lag" in info.
Thread Starter
Interesting....
Hi Icarus
Thanks for your helpful advice. First of all, is it plausable then that once in the compulsory industry placement (Most likely Qantaslink) that you would stay there and not be relinquished after 2 years?
Secondly would you go in as First officer position? How does this work when by the end of your cadetship training phase you would only have 100 hours PIC and approx 200-250 hours total????? Yet direct entry into Qantaslink is 700 tt and 250 multi. I'm confused!!!!
Finally I think you misinterpreted what I meant by point # 3. What I mean is why spend 2 years in industry when you could feasibly spend a year or even less getting 500 hours in command elsewhere and then apply for direct entry as a SO?
Thanks for your helpful advice. First of all, is it plausable then that once in the compulsory industry placement (Most likely Qantaslink) that you would stay there and not be relinquished after 2 years?
Secondly would you go in as First officer position? How does this work when by the end of your cadetship training phase you would only have 100 hours PIC and approx 200-250 hours total????? Yet direct entry into Qantaslink is 700 tt and 250 multi. I'm confused!!!!
Finally I think you misinterpreted what I meant by point # 3. What I mean is why spend 2 years in industry when you could feasibly spend a year or even less getting 500 hours in command elsewhere and then apply for direct entry as a SO?
Happy Bandit,
What Icarus says in regards to pay etc is pretty well spot on. Agree that most future cadets will now be going to QLink, though perhaps the odd few may still go to the other employers (except Skippers - they're no longer taking QF cadets I believe) when the cadets currently there finish up. Also, the CIPP is for a set period of two years, the only reason you would stay at a CIPP employer is by your own choice or if QF wasn't recruiting at the time your 2 years was up....QF don't select cadets to stay on in industry placement indefinitely so it's very unlikely that you would not be relinquished irrespective of where you do your placement.
Not entirely sure where you're going with the FO business, to give a brief summary, at the end of the cadetship you will likely get an FO spot in one of the previously mentioned companies for approx 2 years then possibly be called up by QF to join as an SO, just like everyone else. Minimums have nothing to do with it, that's why cadetships exist; to train pilots the way the respective airline wants them trained. Even after the 2 years in placement with perhaps 1500hrs or so in the logbook you will find that the vast majority of cadets still wouldn't have the minimum requirements aka 500pic for QF Direct Entry!
As to why do the Cadetship and not just get your 500 pic and apply sooner? Well for me it was quite an easy decision, I wanted to fly for QF and the cadetship provided me with a way of reaching that dream ON TOP of the Direct Entry option. If I stuffed up with the cadet path, then I still had DE up my sleeve and I would have at least had exposure to some or all of the QF recruitment process which would have made it that little bit easier when that DE selection came. In a nutshell, I didn't want to put all my eggs in the one (DE) basket! Also,whilst 500 pic is the minimum, you could find that it may take all of those 2 years or so that you would be doing your CIPP before QF deemed you 'competitive' anyhow.
As i've stated in previous posts, the cadetship is not for everyone for various reasons, not least financially, however it does provide you with a couple more 'shots' at getting into the rat which was a good enough reason for me.
Hope this helps.
What Icarus says in regards to pay etc is pretty well spot on. Agree that most future cadets will now be going to QLink, though perhaps the odd few may still go to the other employers (except Skippers - they're no longer taking QF cadets I believe) when the cadets currently there finish up. Also, the CIPP is for a set period of two years, the only reason you would stay at a CIPP employer is by your own choice or if QF wasn't recruiting at the time your 2 years was up....QF don't select cadets to stay on in industry placement indefinitely so it's very unlikely that you would not be relinquished irrespective of where you do your placement.
Not entirely sure where you're going with the FO business, to give a brief summary, at the end of the cadetship you will likely get an FO spot in one of the previously mentioned companies for approx 2 years then possibly be called up by QF to join as an SO, just like everyone else. Minimums have nothing to do with it, that's why cadetships exist; to train pilots the way the respective airline wants them trained. Even after the 2 years in placement with perhaps 1500hrs or so in the logbook you will find that the vast majority of cadets still wouldn't have the minimum requirements aka 500pic for QF Direct Entry!
As to why do the Cadetship and not just get your 500 pic and apply sooner? Well for me it was quite an easy decision, I wanted to fly for QF and the cadetship provided me with a way of reaching that dream ON TOP of the Direct Entry option. If I stuffed up with the cadet path, then I still had DE up my sleeve and I would have at least had exposure to some or all of the QF recruitment process which would have made it that little bit easier when that DE selection came. In a nutshell, I didn't want to put all my eggs in the one (DE) basket! Also,whilst 500 pic is the minimum, you could find that it may take all of those 2 years or so that you would be doing your CIPP before QF deemed you 'competitive' anyhow.
As i've stated in previous posts, the cadetship is not for everyone for various reasons, not least financially, however it does provide you with a couple more 'shots' at getting into the rat which was a good enough reason for me.
Hope this helps.
Last edited by brown_hornet; 9th Jul 2007 at 14:35.
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We're talking about the Qantas & Swinburne University program starting up in January 2008, right? If so, I'm VERY interested in what is on offer. Especially the fact that it states that the government will provide FEE-HELP with the training for up to $80,000. I've made a few enquiries via email to Qantas and Swinburne University now, and I'll be looking forward to seeing what they have to say. Very interesting times indeed.
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what are these programs like for internationals, and not particularly interested in staying in the country to fly. Also, because I hear its nearly impossible to fly in Australia due to strict regulations and allowing foreigners in.
Why not just take the required courses at their Designated Flight School and by-pass the B.S. that comes along with corporations!?
I'm asking because I'm interested, and contrary to what some might think, in being trained by companies for the purpose of direction rather than taking it on yourself and ending up a day late and dollar short. As I'm sure you all know this isn't a cheap profession to get in to.
Money really isn't a deterrant although I'm not too keen on going over to say Lufthansa and getting their training for 150,000$, although if it gets me a job alot quicker and less painful then...
Thanks ppl.
Why not just take the required courses at their Designated Flight School and by-pass the B.S. that comes along with corporations!?
I'm asking because I'm interested, and contrary to what some might think, in being trained by companies for the purpose of direction rather than taking it on yourself and ending up a day late and dollar short. As I'm sure you all know this isn't a cheap profession to get in to.
Money really isn't a deterrant although I'm not too keen on going over to say Lufthansa and getting their training for 150,000$, although if it gets me a job alot quicker and less painful then...
Thanks ppl.
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Blokie,
Most airline based cadet programs around the World require the applicant to at least have permanent residency in the country the airline is based. If you're trying to get in quick, you'll need to apply in your neck of the woods, or somewhere you have citizenship.
Depending on the carrier and the school, you can apply as a foreign national to study an "airline cadet training program", however this usually occurs under a private training arrangement with no involvement of the airline (no idea on whether this is the case for the new QANTAS training regime). You get the same training, but no specific job prospects at the end.
If you are looking for direction, and a more focused training program to get your basic quals, take your pick; just don't expect an airline job at the end. If you want to get an airline job, an airline sponsored cadet program may be the way forward.
Icarus
Most airline based cadet programs around the World require the applicant to at least have permanent residency in the country the airline is based. If you're trying to get in quick, you'll need to apply in your neck of the woods, or somewhere you have citizenship.
Depending on the carrier and the school, you can apply as a foreign national to study an "airline cadet training program", however this usually occurs under a private training arrangement with no involvement of the airline (no idea on whether this is the case for the new QANTAS training regime). You get the same training, but no specific job prospects at the end.
If you are looking for direction, and a more focused training program to get your basic quals, take your pick; just don't expect an airline job at the end. If you want to get an airline job, an airline sponsored cadet program may be the way forward.
Icarus
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Thanks for the reply,
I ask because as of last year you had to be a permanent resident etc to get into the program but as far as I've read there is nothing stating that you have to be. Although, it does state that for direct entry you have to have all those in order so... And like I said, I'm not sure about a pilots license, if you have some sort of qualification, ie. a university degree like I have, you can usually apply for residency under that if the license doesn't work.
Well I guess on the other hand, if I get the training at the same location they do their cadet training there should be no discrepancy in the "quality" or "type" of training received if I attempt to stay in the country. The girlfriend is in school down there as well over the next 2.5 years so I figured why not.
I ask because as of last year you had to be a permanent resident etc to get into the program but as far as I've read there is nothing stating that you have to be. Although, it does state that for direct entry you have to have all those in order so... And like I said, I'm not sure about a pilots license, if you have some sort of qualification, ie. a university degree like I have, you can usually apply for residency under that if the license doesn't work.
Well I guess on the other hand, if I get the training at the same location they do their cadet training there should be no discrepancy in the "quality" or "type" of training received if I attempt to stay in the country. The girlfriend is in school down there as well over the next 2.5 years so I figured why not.
