safety question
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safety question
G'day people... have a burning question... how often do GA operators bend the rules? eg max weights, duty time. what can a pilot do to keep themselves safe and keep their job at the same time?
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how often do GA operators bend the rules?
what can a pilot do to keep themselves safe and keep their job at the same time?
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Rule #1. You name it...they do it!
Overloading,
Defects not written up,
Maintenance not done,
Fuel loads not sufficient as per CAR's/CAAP's,
Duty times,
PAY, (big letters!)
etc...
Rule #2. Just make sure you don't!
If in doubt about Rule #1 see Rule #2.
If it costs you your job so what? Better than your life...or some poor pax as well.
The operator and pilot have an equally shared responsibility to uphold ALL of the regulations applicable to the intended operation. Unfortunately it makes it hard to do your job when the boss won't do his properly.
Many operators are good and won't push too hard (legaly speaking) on the pilots. A few buggars will and they are not worth the time of day. If you have a legit question/problem with something then raise it with the CP.
If he/she won't support you and you believe (and are sure) the action you have been instructed to do is illegal then hit the road. If everyone did this then the shifty operators would eventually get the message.
Z.
Overloading,
Defects not written up,
Maintenance not done,
Fuel loads not sufficient as per CAR's/CAAP's,
Duty times,
PAY, (big letters!)
etc...
Rule #2. Just make sure you don't!
If in doubt about Rule #1 see Rule #2.
If it costs you your job so what? Better than your life...or some poor pax as well.
The operator and pilot have an equally shared responsibility to uphold ALL of the regulations applicable to the intended operation. Unfortunately it makes it hard to do your job when the boss won't do his properly.
Many operators are good and won't push too hard (legaly speaking) on the pilots. A few buggars will and they are not worth the time of day. If you have a legit question/problem with something then raise it with the CP.
If he/she won't support you and you believe (and are sure) the action you have been instructed to do is illegal then hit the road. If everyone did this then the shifty operators would eventually get the message.
Z.
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Working backwards from the MTOW...
"Manipulating" MTOW figures by carrying a bunch of light-weight school kids on EVERY flight...
Booking hotels that are never slept in...
"Manipulating" MTOW figures by carrying a bunch of light-weight school kids on EVERY flight...
Booking hotels that are never slept in...
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In some cases if you use a bit of lateral thinking you may be able to come up with an alternative solution to the problem that allows you to get the job done and remain within the rules. E.g. finding a way to off load pax bags out of your plane and get them to the destination via a different means, suggesting a slightly different routing to accommodate fuel/wx requirements etc.
Many ops managers aren’t pilots and don’t understand some of the intricacies of operating aircraft. If you can tell them “We’re out of limits at the moment, however we could do it this way”, you have given them an option based on your practical knowledge and experience.
At the end of the day you have to do what you feel is right because it’s your ar$e/licence on the line.
Many ops managers aren’t pilots and don’t understand some of the intricacies of operating aircraft. If you can tell them “We’re out of limits at the moment, however we could do it this way”, you have given them an option based on your practical knowledge and experience.
At the end of the day you have to do what you feel is right because it’s your ar$e/licence on the line.
Give 'em an inch; they will take a mile.
I have regularly been told by other pilots about bosses that force them to break various rules but in my experience it is not quite like that. What I have observed is pilots that are "willing" to bend the rules and bosses who will eagerly be complicite in such behaviour. I made it clear thoughout my several thousand hours in GA that it was something I had no intention of doing. Guess what? Not one boss has ever "forced" me to do something I shouldn't have.
Thats not to say these guys all ran squeaky clean operations. Fellow employees would be breaking rules and the boss was more than happy to turn a blind eye to such practices if it was to their commercial gain. Did it affect my career... not in any measurable way that I was aware of. Though some of those people are still flying in GA and scratching their heads as to why they can't seem to get into something better despite having good "on paper" experience.
Bottom line, maintain your own integrity and always operate as best you can. Breaking rules isn't the only way you can be a "good" employee!
And if the boss really does "force" you (which I DO believe occurs, just not in my experience) take the advice above and seek alternative employment. There are plenty of operators who will respect your integrity.
Thats not to say these guys all ran squeaky clean operations. Fellow employees would be breaking rules and the boss was more than happy to turn a blind eye to such practices if it was to their commercial gain. Did it affect my career... not in any measurable way that I was aware of. Though some of those people are still flying in GA and scratching their heads as to why they can't seem to get into something better despite having good "on paper" experience.
Bottom line, maintain your own integrity and always operate as best you can. Breaking rules isn't the only way you can be a "good" employee!
And if the boss really does "force" you (which I DO believe occurs, just not in my experience) take the advice above and seek alternative employment. There are plenty of operators who will respect your integrity.
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Originally Posted by spike82
G'day people... have a burning question... how often do GA operators bend the rules? eg max weights, duty time. what can a pilot do to keep themselves safe and keep their job at the same time?
Surely anyone involved in GA knows these things already!
I have had some things "suggested" to me before, however the majority of the operators I have worked for respected whatever decision I made with regards to the safety of a flight, some of them where even more restrictive then the rules! Not ever operator is dodgy, in-fact from experience (however limited) most of them play by the rules, they are tough and expect you to at least visit the very edge of the law, but not to cross over. E.g. approaches to the very minimum, no personal buffers, fuel loads to the L, max TO wt. etc.
There is a saying "If you think safety is expensive, wait till you have an accident". Most operators know this and act accordingly.
Note: Some of the rules imposed are poorly written and do not represent the actual reality of a commercial operation, especially at the lower GA end.
There is a saying "If you think safety is expensive, wait till you have an accident". Most operators know this and act accordingly.
Note: Some of the rules imposed are poorly written and do not represent the actual reality of a commercial operation, especially at the lower GA end.
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Originally Posted by pyote
9 peopel to a dwarf convention
That's the sort of crap that gives everyone out there doing it every day a bad name. Careless statements are all grist for the media's mis-informed mill.
New standard weights however do lose a seat.
Last edited by kiwiblue; 19th Apr 2007 at 10:14.
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I've been very fortunate I think, as I've never been put under pressure to bend or break the rules. In my observation much of this pressure is self imposed, and in some cases, self imposed to allow the bender to avoid making the sometimes unpleasant decision, not to fly.
Remember, an operator is under pressure from clients, the bottom line etc. The operations manager/owner may ask you to do things that are not physically acheivable with the aircraft/time you have. There is nothing wrong with that and this should not be construed as the operator being unsafe or bending corners.
It is up to you as a pilot to say yes, this can be done, or no it cannot be done and quote the appropriate regs or W&B sheet to show why, usually with a statement along the lines of: "It would be in contravention of CAR ### to conduct this flight in this manner."
If the company then says, I don't give a *&^%, do it anyway, THEN it is time to get another job. More often than not, you will get some respect as a professional pilot that knows the ins and outs of operations well and your judgement in the future will be trusted by that gruff grumpy stressed operations manager.
Remember if you get caught breaking rules to please the boss, he won't back you up at all. He'll hang you out to dry and you will have no proof at all. He'll just refer to the ops manual that you have signed.
It is up to you as a pilot to say yes, this can be done, or no it cannot be done and quote the appropriate regs or W&B sheet to show why, usually with a statement along the lines of: "It would be in contravention of CAR ### to conduct this flight in this manner."
If the company then says, I don't give a *&^%, do it anyway, THEN it is time to get another job. More often than not, you will get some respect as a professional pilot that knows the ins and outs of operations well and your judgement in the future will be trusted by that gruff grumpy stressed operations manager.
Remember if you get caught breaking rules to please the boss, he won't back you up at all. He'll hang you out to dry and you will have no proof at all. He'll just refer to the ops manual that you have signed.
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I thought flying in Australia, at least as far as VH registered powered aircraft, was made totally illegal many decades ago.
I have heard some say that it can be done, and that small loop holes exist, but I think it is just a case of they haven't yet had a chance to fully read all the regs and orders pertaining to flight.
M
I have heard some say that it can be done, and that small loop holes exist, but I think it is just a case of they haven't yet had a chance to fully read all the regs and orders pertaining to flight.
M
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There are plenty of operators who will respect your integrity
Example: Many years ago at Essendon there was Mystere 20 charter operator. There were a few close shaves with shortage of fuel when attempting Essendon - Perth. One pilot was particularly concerned about the condition of one of the engines which red lined on EGT for every take off.
When internal discussions failed to address the fuel close shaves and the engine red line got worse, one of the pilots went to CASA. In short he blew the whistle on what he perceived as a shonky operation. He was dead right, too. CASA moved in and after investigation agreed that the operation was dodgy. Eventually the company closed it's doors.
Not long after the pilot concerned who started the investigation, applied for a job with another corporate operator. It matters not who. He was unable to score a job in the Melbourne area.
I personally asked one chief pilot why he would not employ this particular pilot having regard to his experience level and undoubted competency.
His reply? He told me "No way would I ever employ a pilot who went to CASA even though he may have been fully justified in doing so".
Integrity counts for nought in this game.
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no, I'm not with casa, and this question was for the benefit of a person i care about - the answers from you lot would be more useful than anything i could come up with as im not a pilot