Eagle Interview Process
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Now that everyone has had their say, I think that maybe a bit of perspective is needed.
Once again I do not condone the specific actions highlighted by this thread. But I do have a good amount of respect for the flight ops team at Eagle, and while I may not always agree with them, I am certain that their motives are pure, and they're only doing what they think is necessary. This particular incident was borne out of frustration, and was not handled correctly - on that point we all agree.
There has been much publicity surrounding problems with people failing checks at Eagle. The training staff, and management are the last people that want to see this, and have racked their brains continuously over the reasons for the high failure rate. There seems to be a degree of self-propagation, over a year ago, there were major problems with new F/Os not making the grade, more recently there has been no problem with newbies, and it's command upgrades that have caused difficulty. It's amazing how people will psych themselves out of a check because the preceding 5 candidates have failed, it's just human nature. Thankfully, this too seems to have stopped for now.
The reality is, when you have to do your checks in the aircraft, rather than the sim, huge amounts of extra pressure are placed both on the pilot, and the check pilot. A command upgrade check can take nearly 3 hours of flight time, to do what would take 1.5 hours in a sim. Having to deal with other traffic is another unrealistic aspect that can take a huge toll on resources - in a real emergency, you will not have to sequence number 6 behind a katana, and ATC will be working for you, not trying to fit you in with everyone else.
The other aspect that seems to make Eagle checks more difficult, is the reluctance of some check captains to act as a realistic non-flying pilot. In a real emergency, it is the non-flying pilot that will stop the **** from hitting the fan, and I do think the emphasis needs to change.
Either way, the flight ops team are very receptive to ideas or suggestions from any pilot who is willing to take the time to make them. They take everything on board. Rest assured, the concerns raised by various people regarding the latest round of interviews have been heeded, and I hope that lessons have been learned.
Once again I do not condone the specific actions highlighted by this thread. But I do have a good amount of respect for the flight ops team at Eagle, and while I may not always agree with them, I am certain that their motives are pure, and they're only doing what they think is necessary. This particular incident was borne out of frustration, and was not handled correctly - on that point we all agree.
There has been much publicity surrounding problems with people failing checks at Eagle. The training staff, and management are the last people that want to see this, and have racked their brains continuously over the reasons for the high failure rate. There seems to be a degree of self-propagation, over a year ago, there were major problems with new F/Os not making the grade, more recently there has been no problem with newbies, and it's command upgrades that have caused difficulty. It's amazing how people will psych themselves out of a check because the preceding 5 candidates have failed, it's just human nature. Thankfully, this too seems to have stopped for now.
The reality is, when you have to do your checks in the aircraft, rather than the sim, huge amounts of extra pressure are placed both on the pilot, and the check pilot. A command upgrade check can take nearly 3 hours of flight time, to do what would take 1.5 hours in a sim. Having to deal with other traffic is another unrealistic aspect that can take a huge toll on resources - in a real emergency, you will not have to sequence number 6 behind a katana, and ATC will be working for you, not trying to fit you in with everyone else.
The other aspect that seems to make Eagle checks more difficult, is the reluctance of some check captains to act as a realistic non-flying pilot. In a real emergency, it is the non-flying pilot that will stop the **** from hitting the fan, and I do think the emphasis needs to change.
Either way, the flight ops team are very receptive to ideas or suggestions from any pilot who is willing to take the time to make them. They take everything on board. Rest assured, the concerns raised by various people regarding the latest round of interviews have been heeded, and I hope that lessons have been learned.
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Dude thats good news that little mess is all cleared up.
Now perhaps we can work on the incidences like I was told about just the other day....
A friend of mine was in a islander holding just north of auckland on a crappy day waiting to be squenced into the ILS for 05R, after 20 minutes or so of holding (the recommended holding fuel for traffic during busy periods) he advised ATC that he was starting to eat into reserves, ATC made a hole for him by squencing him in front of a 1900, said 1900 was told to slow and vectored to allow the twin to commence the approach, the 1900 responded in a annoyed voice "confirm we are number two to the islander?" ATC re-afirmed and vectored the 1900 to allow the islander to shoot the approach.
Thinking nothing more of it both aircraft landed safely. A short time afterwards the friend of mine was in his office completing paperwork when the F/O off the 1900 came into his office and stated "that his captain wanted to tell you that he is really ****ed off with you"
I'm sorry as I cant recall where the conversation went to from there as kinda swiched off listening to the story, as my blood temperature was starting to rise.
Where do people like this get off? Do they think guys in GA are an easy target for abuse just because your aircraft is bigger than theirs? Why did the captain not make a personal apperance? Scared? Bully?
Would this guy march into the 737/A320 crew room and tell some jet skipper that he was "really ****ed off with him" ? I think not....
It has been re-iterated here that there are good buggers in Eagle and it's true, I know a few of them, and they are horrified when they hear stories of this sort of behavior.
Forums like this are an area where these sorts of concerns can be aired and hopefully the individualls concerned can see that this sort of behavior is not acceptable. We all know who the tools are, Its up to the good bugger there to stamp on this sort of behaviour and allow the GA boys to do their difficult work in relative peace.
I hope that this thread and others in the past may have changed the odd attitude within Eagle.
Now perhaps we can work on the incidences like I was told about just the other day....
A friend of mine was in a islander holding just north of auckland on a crappy day waiting to be squenced into the ILS for 05R, after 20 minutes or so of holding (the recommended holding fuel for traffic during busy periods) he advised ATC that he was starting to eat into reserves, ATC made a hole for him by squencing him in front of a 1900, said 1900 was told to slow and vectored to allow the twin to commence the approach, the 1900 responded in a annoyed voice "confirm we are number two to the islander?" ATC re-afirmed and vectored the 1900 to allow the islander to shoot the approach.
Thinking nothing more of it both aircraft landed safely. A short time afterwards the friend of mine was in his office completing paperwork when the F/O off the 1900 came into his office and stated "that his captain wanted to tell you that he is really ****ed off with you"
I'm sorry as I cant recall where the conversation went to from there as kinda swiched off listening to the story, as my blood temperature was starting to rise.
Where do people like this get off? Do they think guys in GA are an easy target for abuse just because your aircraft is bigger than theirs? Why did the captain not make a personal apperance? Scared? Bully?
Would this guy march into the 737/A320 crew room and tell some jet skipper that he was "really ****ed off with him" ? I think not....
It has been re-iterated here that there are good buggers in Eagle and it's true, I know a few of them, and they are horrified when they hear stories of this sort of behavior.
Forums like this are an area where these sorts of concerns can be aired and hopefully the individualls concerned can see that this sort of behavior is not acceptable. We all know who the tools are, Its up to the good bugger there to stamp on this sort of behaviour and allow the GA boys to do their difficult work in relative peace.
I hope that this thread and others in the past may have changed the odd attitude within Eagle.
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I agree with you, and yes there is a definite place for threads like this when attitude changes are needed. I just hope you can separate the vast majority of us from the odd w@nker who does this sort of thing (and I don't think it's confined to Eagle). All I can do is make a point of not treating other pilots with any less respect based on the aircraft they fly, and hope that others do the same - remember it is usually us that are on the receiving end of the 'you only fly a little aeroplane, therefore I'm better than you' argument. Unfortunately some Eagle pilots aren't able to brush this off as easily as it deserves to be, and you get the bullied becoming the bully.
I don't have time for anyone who makes snide remarks about the inferiority of another pilot's aircraft, just as I can't stand it when people talk up their own aircraft. I also appreciate how hard these guys in Islanders etc work, and am only too happy to help them out when I can.
It would be great if we could hear about some of the friendly and helpful things we all do for each other on a daily basis. Perhaps the bad apples would sit up and take notice, and some real changes could be made. Sadly, I don't think so.
I get the feeling I'm fighting a loosing battle here, but I never was a quick learner.
I don't have time for anyone who makes snide remarks about the inferiority of another pilot's aircraft, just as I can't stand it when people talk up their own aircraft. I also appreciate how hard these guys in Islanders etc work, and am only too happy to help them out when I can.
It would be great if we could hear about some of the friendly and helpful things we all do for each other on a daily basis. Perhaps the bad apples would sit up and take notice, and some real changes could be made. Sadly, I don't think so.
I get the feeling I'm fighting a loosing battle here, but I never was a quick learner.
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CC you sound like a good dude. You can spew off my deck anytime.
Lets give these GA boys/girls the help and encouragement they need.
I too would like to see some way in which a sort of "adopt a GA pilot" could be done and help them out with news on recruitment, donations of showgirls dollars etc
Lets give these GA boys/girls the help and encouragement they need.
I too would like to see some way in which a sort of "adopt a GA pilot" could be done and help them out with news on recruitment, donations of showgirls dollars etc
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What about a general networking evening, to be held at show girls (we'll get a good deal for a group), followed by deck spewing at your place.
We'll call it 'GA-Prune-Strip-Chunder-Bash 07'
Just have to be careful when booking as showies are a bit gun-shy of big groups of feral pilots. I can't think why...
We'll call it 'GA-Prune-Strip-Chunder-Bash 07'
Just have to be careful when booking as showies are a bit gun-shy of big groups of feral pilots. I can't think why...
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Thats not gonna happen..a couple of EAG FO's work at showgirls after hours to help pay the rent. The Whitehouse is out too (same reason)
Just kidding of course..but a senior Training Capt. told me that there were 17 resignations at Ex last week..get your applications updated people!!
Just kidding of course..but a senior Training Capt. told me that there were 17 resignations at Ex last week..get your applications updated people!!
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Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh showgirls......if I remember, I think I attended the opening nite a few years back
Cloud..good to see you pop your head above the fence and add a bit of perspective to this discussion.
H
Cloud..good to see you pop your head above the fence and add a bit of perspective to this discussion.
H
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but a senior Training Capt. told me that there were 17 resignations at Ex last week
S2K
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Adopt a student?
Lets give these GA boys/girls the help and encouragement they need.
I too would like to see some way in which a sort of "adopt a GA pilot" could be done and help them out with news on recruitment, donations of showgirls dollars etc
I too would like to see some way in which a sort of "adopt a GA pilot" could be done and help them out with news on recruitment, donations of showgirls dollars etc
would) share... can "adopt a GA pilot" stretch to us lowly students? 
Would be nice to hear more from people that are happy with their careers!
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Just heard that the lovely people at Eagle have sent the people that they had invited to a re-test a NO letter. What absolute tools. Giving people a little hope then burning them again. No wonder why they have trouble getting people to pass their interveiw, no good bugger in their right mind would bother applying to these turkeys.
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I think the term used is 'Indian givers' - somewhat disappointing for those involved.
Don't despair, there is always the possiblity of getting a job flying for the Maori's in Nelson on Ngati Koata Air with Robert Inglis as the Kaumatua.
WARNING: STAY WELL CLEAR!!!
Don't despair, there is always the possiblity of getting a job flying for the Maori's in Nelson on Ngati Koata Air with Robert Inglis as the Kaumatua.
WARNING: STAY WELL CLEAR!!!
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Just heard that the lovely people at Eagle have sent the people that they had invited to a re-test a NO letter
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Well im sure that an invite did not constitute a job offer.
However it is the sort of thing that we have become used to from these people.
Anyway Air NSN is apparerently interveiwing this month and no doubt with a minimum of fuss will take the good fullas that once again have missed out on Eagle.
It reminds me of that salmon add on TV a few years ago.
"Its the fish John West rejects that Makes John West the best"
Perhaps a slight modification too...
"Its the pilots that eagle rejects that make the others the best!"
Haha
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Been watching this thread for a little while with a bit of interest. I thought you used to apply to eagle to get out of the aeroclub scene, sounds like they are an aeroclub with beech's. Will be interesting to see how they handle the next lot of interview'es. Hopefully they will act like adults/grown ups. What a bunch of plonkers.
The dash/atr drivers must kick themselves every second tuesday that they failed the eagle interveiw.
Play nice in the sandpit kiddies!
The dash/atr drivers must kick themselves every second tuesday that they failed the eagle interveiw.
Play nice in the sandpit kiddies!
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Re: This Thread: I think it is more a matter of time and resources, Whereas The People offered Interviews or Re-tests are probably great pilots and people, The New Interview/Testing would be designed to weed out anyone who is going to take too much time to come up to speed or require additional Training, Costing them Time, People and money(The same way Air NZ has Pretty much turned itself into a high/Mid fares - semi Budget Service airline to compete), Pretty much a standard Employment Procedure outside of the Aviation Industry these days, this Thread Just shows you how much people don't like Change within the NZ
Aviation Industry, if you Think this is
it more than likely the way things are going to go - could be wrong thou.
But in Regards to the people that missed out, it may be a Positive for Them as Something better usually comes up if you keep a positive outlook on things.
Aviation Industry, if you Think this is
it more than likely the way things are going to go - could be wrong thou.But in Regards to the people that missed out, it may be a Positive for Them as Something better usually comes up if you keep a positive outlook on things.
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I think what this thread ACTUALLY shows, is that every company has its good and bad points.
EAG appear to have been a little inconsistent in their approach to recruitment, and there will always be good operators who for various reasons will miss out.
As they say though, cream rises to the top, so I reckon most of these guys if they are any good will find a better gig somewhere else.
EAG aint the be all and end all, it is however a nice little stepping stone into Jet A1 burning multi time.
EAG appear to have been a little inconsistent in their approach to recruitment, and there will always be good operators who for various reasons will miss out.
As they say though, cream rises to the top, so I reckon most of these guys if they are any good will find a better gig somewhere else.
EAG aint the be all and end all, it is however a nice little stepping stone into Jet A1 burning multi time.