CTC Wings NZ
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Yes, I've heard a certain Hamilton based Link operator is using CTC in their pilot evaluation interviews during day 2....
However we are talking about using the CTC simulator to evaulate candidates in much the same way they used to use a certain Ardmore based flying school for their simulator to evaluate candidates on their basic I/F..
Far from taking 250 hour pilots into the RHS of the mighty 1900.
But i could be wrong..
I have no doubt a 250 hour CTC cadet can do it. I've seen it and many of the cadets I taught are flying B757s and A320s now. Many have glowing reports and worked very hard to get where they are. CTC does have a way of weeding out the undesirables during training.
I just advise caution into joining a program which promises and holds the RHS carrot infront of many a student pilot, until it is proven. CTC is proven, however proven only in the UK. And to get into the UK, you need that ever elusive Right to Work in the EU.
The other problem I foresee with cadets in airlines in NZ is as Luke says, the '50 year culture of the exact opposite downunder'. Placing cadets into a airline is not just as simple as taking a cadet and placing them into a flight deck. The company culture has to be conducive to it. If 250 hour cadets start getting into the RHS of a B737 over the 3000-4000 hour Link driver who has worked every weekend for the last 10 years to get where he is, I see a bit of a revolt happening.
In saying that though, when easyJet take cadets, they only take a cadet stream, they still take experienced pilots as well as cadets, so that the experience levels going into the company is staggered and you don't get a experience 'hump' of experienced people all leaving the company at the same time. Cadets only alleivate a small problem of pilot recruitment, airlines still need experienced drivers.
But as I've stated in the past.. I could be wrong. (I don't work for Air NZ or Link so I'm only speculating about the response and culture)
However we are talking about using the CTC simulator to evaulate candidates in much the same way they used to use a certain Ardmore based flying school for their simulator to evaluate candidates on their basic I/F..
Far from taking 250 hour pilots into the RHS of the mighty 1900.
But i could be wrong..
I have no doubt a 250 hour CTC cadet can do it. I've seen it and many of the cadets I taught are flying B757s and A320s now. Many have glowing reports and worked very hard to get where they are. CTC does have a way of weeding out the undesirables during training.
I just advise caution into joining a program which promises and holds the RHS carrot infront of many a student pilot, until it is proven. CTC is proven, however proven only in the UK. And to get into the UK, you need that ever elusive Right to Work in the EU.
The other problem I foresee with cadets in airlines in NZ is as Luke says, the '50 year culture of the exact opposite downunder'. Placing cadets into a airline is not just as simple as taking a cadet and placing them into a flight deck. The company culture has to be conducive to it. If 250 hour cadets start getting into the RHS of a B737 over the 3000-4000 hour Link driver who has worked every weekend for the last 10 years to get where he is, I see a bit of a revolt happening.
In saying that though, when easyJet take cadets, they only take a cadet stream, they still take experienced pilots as well as cadets, so that the experience levels going into the company is staggered and you don't get a experience 'hump' of experienced people all leaving the company at the same time. Cadets only alleivate a small problem of pilot recruitment, airlines still need experienced drivers.
But as I've stated in the past.. I could be wrong. (I don't work for Air NZ or Link so I'm only speculating about the response and culture)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NZ
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I'm looking into CPL options for when I leave school so...
being a New Zealander without a UK passport (or any chance or getting one), would the CTC wings scheme be able to help me into an airline job as they do for their UK cadets? I understand the UK cadets go back to the UK to do further training with the airline for the type rating etc, but what about NZers? If I didn't/couldnt get a UK passport or whatever, could I still get a job over there via CTC, or would I have to wait for an airline cadetship closer to home (NZ, Australia)?
Am I right in saying that CTC currently has no australasian airline partners to send cadets to? If that's the case, there's not really any point in me doing the CTC cadet thing unless I know that I can work in europe. Is this right? It's still a few years off anyway, things could have changed by then, I'm just exploring my options at this stage...
ZK-Awesome
being a New Zealander without a UK passport (or any chance or getting one), would the CTC wings scheme be able to help me into an airline job as they do for their UK cadets? I understand the UK cadets go back to the UK to do further training with the airline for the type rating etc, but what about NZers? If I didn't/couldnt get a UK passport or whatever, could I still get a job over there via CTC, or would I have to wait for an airline cadetship closer to home (NZ, Australia)?
Am I right in saying that CTC currently has no australasian airline partners to send cadets to? If that's the case, there's not really any point in me doing the CTC cadet thing unless I know that I can work in europe. Is this right? It's still a few years off anyway, things could have changed by then, I'm just exploring my options at this stage...
ZK-Awesome
Last edited by ZK-Awesome; 10th Dec 2007 at 01:28. Reason: added a wee bit more
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Luke skyToddler "I know with retrospect that Massey and Ardmore were spilling the exact same crap with regard to their own schools to get students on board way back then as well."
Some would argue that one of these places at least is still doing that. I know a few people who have been misinformed into signing up for a certain degree course...
In every training organization, you have the quick learners and the guys that take a little longer. With 250 hours, I'm sure that there are guys and gals from around the country who probably could operate a PAX aircraft satisfactorily from the right hand seat, its not limited to CTC. I know of non-CTC guys who go straight in to ATRs and 737s.
Some would argue that one of these places at least is still doing that. I know a few people who have been misinformed into signing up for a certain degree course...
In every training organization, you have the quick learners and the guys that take a little longer. With 250 hours, I'm sure that there are guys and gals from around the country who probably could operate a PAX aircraft satisfactorily from the right hand seat, its not limited to CTC. I know of non-CTC guys who go straight in to ATRs and 737s.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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That's quite right. What you really want to look at is the syllabus that is taught by these outfits. Assuming the students are all about the same level in terms of handling, the techniques (IFR particularly) that the CTC Cadets and NZ Cadets are equipped with are very solid. Instrument flying at CTC is taught well.
Other schools - Bay Flight and Ardmore spring to mind - are churning out a bit of a rough product, irrespective of the student's particular abilities. If you take a few 250hr Kiwis, the ones who have been through CTC would handle the rigors of RHS turboprop flying better than any others.
CTC would also be one of the few schools in NZ to offer a legitimate step-up course in their airline preparation course. NZ students are expected to complete that as part of their training as well.
I would not reccommend that any NZers with UK or EU work rights apply for the UK Wings course - there is a serious amount of misinformation around at the moment. The so called pilot shortage in the UK has seen a few of their cadets who have finished their training sitting around for 6 months working in bars and racking up interest on 70,000 pounds.
Other schools - Bay Flight and Ardmore spring to mind - are churning out a bit of a rough product, irrespective of the student's particular abilities. If you take a few 250hr Kiwis, the ones who have been through CTC would handle the rigors of RHS turboprop flying better than any others.
CTC would also be one of the few schools in NZ to offer a legitimate step-up course in their airline preparation course. NZ students are expected to complete that as part of their training as well.
I would not reccommend that any NZers with UK or EU work rights apply for the UK Wings course - there is a serious amount of misinformation around at the moment. The so called pilot shortage in the UK has seen a few of their cadets who have finished their training sitting around for 6 months working in bars and racking up interest on 70,000 pounds.
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From what i gather they seem to have strong airline ties both in europe and in new zealand, looking at their website it looks like the cadets do an airline appreciation course afterwards, but the proof will be in the pudding sometime next year when the 1st course is due to finish 
Join Date: May 2002
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I thought the 'tie up' with CTC was to be in the form of some sort of ailine prep course, aimed at those with a bit of GA time but falling short of the usual experience requirements (be it multi or total time etc) - not fresh CPL's - Oh and ive heard the price tag is somewhere over $15kish.
I would have my reservations about anything someone at the upper end of a training organistaion has to say until I had heard the same(different) story from the airline involved.
One thing I have learnt over the years in aviation is that until it has actually happened it is nothing more than an empty promise.
I would have my reservations about anything someone at the upper end of a training organistaion has to say until I had heard the same(different) story from the airline involved.
One thing I have learnt over the years in aviation is that until it has actually happened it is nothing more than an empty promise.
Last edited by flyby_kiwi; 13th Dec 2007 at 06:57.
