x-credit glider time
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hmmmm...
many thanks to most of the posters -you're information is valuable and appreciated. The few who have tried to degenerate this into some sort of pi$$ing contest have shown the rest of us more of their own attitudes and maturity-levels than they might believe.
Those of you active in the Willy area will definitely see an new junior member in your ranks soon -and possibly on older, greyer, 'funny' sounding one too
Thanks again!
many thanks to most of the posters -you're information is valuable and appreciated. The few who have tried to degenerate this into some sort of pi$$ing contest have shown the rest of us more of their own attitudes and maturity-levels than they might believe.
Those of you active in the Willy area will definitely see an new junior member in your ranks soon -and possibly on older, greyer, 'funny' sounding one too
Thanks again!
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it is very much about energy
Kiwiblue - for what it is worth. Gliding teaches one aspect of the art of flying exceptionally well, and that is ENERGY MANAGEMENT. It is not about how quickly a glider pilot can go solo in a powered aircraft or vice versa, but about the skills/knowledge that can be gained - and to say it again the single most important for the glider pilot is the management of energy.
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Broken Conrod, you are trolling right? Having experienced gliding clubs and powered flying clubs and a lot of sailing, they all have their lessons and their place.
For a start, anyone who has solo'd in a glider will be just great at the "practiced forced landing" in the PPL.
For a start, anyone who has solo'd in a glider will be just great at the "practiced forced landing" in the PPL.
Other than the odd engine failure, I've never glided in my life, but I know for a fact that glider pilots make better students. Their stick and rudder skills are far superior and judgement / landing etc is exceptional. It's NOT a waste of time gliding.
You will knock off a number of hours based on competency. Could be 5, could be 10 or could be 20; depends how competent you are.
You will knock off a number of hours based on competency. Could be 5, could be 10 or could be 20; depends how competent you are.
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I was recently at a Gliding facility in SEQ, the three 737 Captains and ex F-111 driver who glide there did'nt seem to find it boring, but what would they know eh?
Gliding is an art form. Pure stick and rudder, graceful, elegant, refined, the aesthetics of the aircraft are hard to deny, long and slender with all the right curves, and just like a lady you have to treat them well
Oh and this has only just occured to me, in a world so obsessed with carbon emmissions blah blah, aside from the tow to say 2500, the rest of the entire day can be spent enjoying flying, without chewing up fuel - brilliant really. Scrambler put it best I think.
Gliding is an art form. Pure stick and rudder, graceful, elegant, refined, the aesthetics of the aircraft are hard to deny, long and slender with all the right curves, and just like a lady you have to treat them well
Oh and this has only just occured to me, in a world so obsessed with carbon emmissions blah blah, aside from the tow to say 2500, the rest of the entire day can be spent enjoying flying, without chewing up fuel - brilliant really. Scrambler put it best I think.
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Just reading this thread has made me look into giving gliding (CPL 500hrs)ago , just for a bit of stick , rudder and weather instructing from guys that want to teach it. would be rather interesting i reckon . Cheers guys.
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aircabbie - something to get you thinking - http://www.silentwingsairshows.com/video/sailplane.wmv
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Agree with all those in favour of gliding. Teaches you all the basics and gives you a real feel for the aircraft.
Number one tip: Pay close attention when your power flight instructor shows you the stall recovery. You can always tell an ex-glider pilot when they do their first powered aircaft stall recovery! Firewall the yoke and you'll be staring at the ground in a Cherokee, where it's just SOP in a Slingsby (showing my age) or a Blanik or one of those new slippery glass ships.
Gliding with winch launches gives you great takeoff and landing practice. A landing every five minutes... While towed launches give you experience of a 10 minute near-miss!
Honestly, when you're 13, can ANY flying experience be a bad thing?
Air Cadets will also do a lot of the ground school stuff, probably teach him to stand up straight, march in time, polish his shoes and do a bit of ironing. Some kids get to shoot a rifle too which is pretty awesome.
Check the kid's feet. If the toes aren't webbed, trade in the Sea Cadets for the Air Cadets and get his aviation career started.
Iwas lucky enough to be awarded a flying scholarship from the RAF through the air cadets in the UK. Gets you to PPL standard - they paid for 30 hours flying at a civil flying club, four weeks, residential in the RAF officers barracks on the other side of the airfield. Four of the best weeks of my life in the Summer of '71. Sigh...
Number one tip: Pay close attention when your power flight instructor shows you the stall recovery. You can always tell an ex-glider pilot when they do their first powered aircaft stall recovery! Firewall the yoke and you'll be staring at the ground in a Cherokee, where it's just SOP in a Slingsby (showing my age) or a Blanik or one of those new slippery glass ships.
Gliding with winch launches gives you great takeoff and landing practice. A landing every five minutes... While towed launches give you experience of a 10 minute near-miss!
Honestly, when you're 13, can ANY flying experience be a bad thing?
Air Cadets will also do a lot of the ground school stuff, probably teach him to stand up straight, march in time, polish his shoes and do a bit of ironing. Some kids get to shoot a rifle too which is pretty awesome.
Check the kid's feet. If the toes aren't webbed, trade in the Sea Cadets for the Air Cadets and get his aviation career started.
Iwas lucky enough to be awarded a flying scholarship from the RAF through the air cadets in the UK. Gets you to PPL standard - they paid for 30 hours flying at a civil flying club, four weeks, residential in the RAF officers barracks on the other side of the airfield. Four of the best weeks of my life in the Summer of '71. Sigh...
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Couldn't agree more Tubby One; but I wouldn't limit the benefits of energy management (I prefer energy conservation personally) solely to the gliding fraternity -practice it all the time, in every machine you operate. There's a lot of benefit and more than one occasion when 'a bit extra' up your sleeve is invaluable
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T'was a long time ago, 1982 to be exact but back then I had just over 300 hrs gliding, and when taking my log book into the D of A (or was it T??....whatever) offices and enquiring if any dispensation was allowable for a PPL, I was given 10 hours off both (I think!!) the restricted and unrestricted sections.
If memory serves correctly the actual requirement for the dispensation was a 'Silver C' certificate.
If memory serves correctly the actual requirement for the dispensation was a 'Silver C' certificate.
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BrokenConrod,
With an attitude like yours, you will bust your arse one day. All aspects of aviation require specfic skill sets and currency to maintain a safe operation. Just because I am current thousands of hours on a heavy jet does not entitle me to waltz out to a gliding club and jump in a glider without a few check flights to re-calibrate the MK 1 eyeball (did HUNDREDS of winch launches and aerotows prior to power flying).
Once new a nice bloke who had flown A4's, Mirages and Hornets; it was a humble hang glider that got him.
Miraz,
Apologies for using your name in vain! Nice shots of the Salto- Have flown one many times, but not like that!
With an attitude like yours, you will bust your arse one day. All aspects of aviation require specfic skill sets and currency to maintain a safe operation. Just because I am current thousands of hours on a heavy jet does not entitle me to waltz out to a gliding club and jump in a glider without a few check flights to re-calibrate the MK 1 eyeball (did HUNDREDS of winch launches and aerotows prior to power flying).
Once new a nice bloke who had flown A4's, Mirages and Hornets; it was a humble hang glider that got him.
Miraz,
Apologies for using your name in vain! Nice shots of the Salto- Have flown one many times, but not like that!
Last edited by alidad; 9th Mar 2007 at 23:30.
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Errr...I didn't seriously intend to suggest otherwise - just re-read my contributions to the thread and don't see anything that does other than the video clip, and that is just for entertainment value.
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Miraz
Great clip, The pilot would be Manfred Radius i believe. I had the pleasure of launching him a few times when he was in oz for the Avalon Airshow some time ago. It was alot of fun watching his display from an airborne vantage point.
For Kiwiblue and anyone else who may be interested, I started gliding as a young tacker, went solo at 15 and subsequently achieved my first solo in a powered aircraft after just 2.3 hours.
There is no doubt that gliding helped my flying in many ways, all of which have been mentioned above. And on top of that, despite what BC thinks, i enjoyed every bit of the experience and am still an active glider pilot.
For Kiwiblue and anyone else who may be interested, I started gliding as a young tacker, went solo at 15 and subsequently achieved my first solo in a powered aircraft after just 2.3 hours.
There is no doubt that gliding helped my flying in many ways, all of which have been mentioned above. And on top of that, despite what BC thinks, i enjoyed every bit of the experience and am still an active glider pilot.
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Whether you like it or not, I am entitled to my opinion. IMHO, gliding is boring, and largely irrelevant to the operation of powered aircraft.
The original post was about a young kid whose Dad was going to send him to some Jesuit flying academy. The question was about whether gliding hours count towards accumulated time for an ab. init. PPL.
Not about whether gliding involves going around and around. Which undoubtedly it does. And yes it can get boring and you can even get airsick.
Although for me all those downside points pale into insignificance when I've shared a thermal to 9,000 feet with a pair of wedge-tails and hightailed it back to the airfield at astonishing speed, executing a few gentle rolls and a couple of loops on the way.
If you don't like going around and around, you're probably not going to like flying heavies either. Anyone who's ever been stuck over the Gong for what seems like an eternity while YSSY sorts out all the early morning inbounds off the Pacific would understand. Ninety minutes of racetrack ovals on top of eight oktas is enough to bore the pants off anyone.
Gliding is undoubtedly an excellent precursor to aviation for a 13 y.o. And it's a good, inexpensive way for him to find out if he likes flying or not. Especially when the cost is being subsidised by the government through the Air Cadets.
No-one has said he, or anyone else, has to practice gliding for life, or to the exclusion of all other types of flying. It's a stepping stone on a lifelong learning path.
VHCU
"How much glider time can be cross-credited towards an ab initio PPL issue?"
In my day you needed Silver C level to be considered for any credit.
Don't know what it is now. I generally have trouble figuring out the requirement for anything these days cause it seems to change all the time. Everytime I rock up for a renewal - something has changed.
BC - I guess a love of sh*t-stirring must be a part of the INTJ personality type also!
I do agree with you on the gliding thing though. I towed gliders for many years, but could not engage with the gliding fraternity on any other level.
However, I once raced the then Qld gliding champion over 50 nm. Him in his Libelle and me in a C150. I started my take-off roll as he stuck his nose down and headed off after taking an aero-tow.
My recollection is that I beat him by 3 minutes - pretty impressive.
Great clip of the sailplane above. I was particularly drawn to the V-tail !!!!
FTDK
In my day you needed Silver C level to be considered for any credit.
Don't know what it is now. I generally have trouble figuring out the requirement for anything these days cause it seems to change all the time. Everytime I rock up for a renewal - something has changed.
BC - I guess a love of sh*t-stirring must be a part of the INTJ personality type also!
I do agree with you on the gliding thing though. I towed gliders for many years, but could not engage with the gliding fraternity on any other level.
However, I once raced the then Qld gliding champion over 50 nm. Him in his Libelle and me in a C150. I started my take-off roll as he stuck his nose down and headed off after taking an aero-tow.
My recollection is that I beat him by 3 minutes - pretty impressive.
Great clip of the sailplane above. I was particularly drawn to the V-tail !!!!
FTDK
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I gave an Myers-Briggs INTJ Personality Type's reaction to an engagement with the gliding movement. A perfectly valid response and highly relevant to the original post - especially if the young fella in question also happens to be an INTJ.
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Cross-credit for gliding - and starting young
FTDK - Kiwiblue did indeed start the thread by asking what credit against PPL is available for glider time.
Since the amendment that brought us CAR Part 5 in 1991, any hours flown in a glider (sailplane - 3-axis controls) can be credits to the required aeronautical experience for the PPL - aeroplanes.
They can also be counted towards the aeronautical experience requirements for the CPL - aeroplanes, and up to a maximum of 750 hours total towards the 1500 hours total (and also the 100 hours command!) for the ATPL -0 aeroplanes.
Also, a gliding instructor who has flown 100 instructional hours in gliders is only required to fly 10 hours (instead of 20) mutual practice in the instructional sequences. (Same goes for a helicopter or ultralight instructor - 10 hours mutual practice instead of 20 to meet Grade 3 minimum hours to attempt the flight test.)
Before 1991 (when FTDK and other posters did it) you had to have a Silver C (5 hour duration in 1 flight, 1000 metre height gain, 50 km X/C) and 100 hours gliding to get a 10 hour reduction in the Restricted PPL time, and if you had flown a number of 300 km flights - 3 I think - you could claim a further 10 hours off the navigation training.
Gliding certainly produces pilots with good eye-hand and aircraft hadling skill, a good feel for the air they are flying in, and a respect for the limitations of the air. However, it is a time-intensive activity because it is an amateur sport, and there are now less full-time operators where you can book a lesson for a particular time, turn up, fly and go away again. This is one reason why the club environment leads to a faster gain in airmanship skills than when you are only present for your own lessons. Aero clubs also do the same - as does the full-time internship of some expensive schools and the now sadly lost Air Cadet Flying Scholarship system.
If the young bloke wants to start early, then flying a 2-place RA-Aus trainer can be done from around 14, with solo permitted at 15 - and many GA schools are now offering this avenue alongside more traditional training aircraft. The training is as good as the school, and again teaches a good feel for the air, while the standard of ultralight-only training has increased significantly in its 22 years of legal history. If he wants to fly an aeroplane for time reasons or any other, find a good ultralight school (maybe try both gliding and ultralights to see his (and Dad's) preference.
Wombat Too
Since the amendment that brought us CAR Part 5 in 1991, any hours flown in a glider (sailplane - 3-axis controls) can be credits to the required aeronautical experience for the PPL - aeroplanes.
They can also be counted towards the aeronautical experience requirements for the CPL - aeroplanes, and up to a maximum of 750 hours total towards the 1500 hours total (and also the 100 hours command!) for the ATPL -0 aeroplanes.
Also, a gliding instructor who has flown 100 instructional hours in gliders is only required to fly 10 hours (instead of 20) mutual practice in the instructional sequences. (Same goes for a helicopter or ultralight instructor - 10 hours mutual practice instead of 20 to meet Grade 3 minimum hours to attempt the flight test.)
Before 1991 (when FTDK and other posters did it) you had to have a Silver C (5 hour duration in 1 flight, 1000 metre height gain, 50 km X/C) and 100 hours gliding to get a 10 hour reduction in the Restricted PPL time, and if you had flown a number of 300 km flights - 3 I think - you could claim a further 10 hours off the navigation training.
Gliding certainly produces pilots with good eye-hand and aircraft hadling skill, a good feel for the air they are flying in, and a respect for the limitations of the air. However, it is a time-intensive activity because it is an amateur sport, and there are now less full-time operators where you can book a lesson for a particular time, turn up, fly and go away again. This is one reason why the club environment leads to a faster gain in airmanship skills than when you are only present for your own lessons. Aero clubs also do the same - as does the full-time internship of some expensive schools and the now sadly lost Air Cadet Flying Scholarship system.
If the young bloke wants to start early, then flying a 2-place RA-Aus trainer can be done from around 14, with solo permitted at 15 - and many GA schools are now offering this avenue alongside more traditional training aircraft.
The training is as good as the school, and again teaches a good feel for the air, while the standard of ultralight-only training has increased significantly in its 22 years of legal history. If he wants to fly an aeroplane for time reasons or any other, find a good ultralight school (maybe try both gliding and ultralights to see his (and Dad's) preference.Wombat Too
