YSBK: Another aircraft down but safe
I should clarify... The Number 4 Cylinder failed on this occasion. (It wasn't the fourth time the aircraft had had an engine failure!)
As for the instructor, I find it extremely hard to believe that he was sacked on the spot for safely landing an aircraft with a failed cylinder, unless it was broken before and he flew anyway?? I doubt that very much!
As for the instructor, I find it extremely hard to believe that he was sacked on the spot for safely landing an aircraft with a failed cylinder, unless it was broken before and he flew anyway?? I doubt that very much!
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funnily enough, being in the RAA side of things now, the Hydraulic lifter Jab engines are pretty reliable and not know to have failures. the reputation of the new jab engines are they are pretty bulletproof.
i have heard rumours around the traps its the operators of the jabs either in maintainence or the pilots themselves not operating the engines as per the manual. as the cases of engine issues with this operator are abnormally high .
i have heard rumours around the traps its the operators of the jabs either in maintainence or the pilots themselves not operating the engines as per the manual. as the cases of engine issues with this operator are abnormally high .
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At Last Someone got it right
This one was a number 4 cylinder failure.
There have been a couple of catastrophic engine failure's in the new Jab 2.2 engines with hydraulic lifters (versus the older ones without them). You will hear very little about them as most of them would be Recreational registered and not published in the public domain.
There have been a couple of catastrophic engine failure's in the new Jab 2.2 engines with hydraulic lifters (versus the older ones without them). You will hear very little about them as most of them would be Recreational registered and not published in the public domain.
You are spot on. Well done , maybe people should shut up unless they really know.
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I had an EFATO in a C1150 in Canberra last week. It was my first lesson on emergency procedures, the first two circuits were go arounds and the next two were EFATO simulations. We decided to do one more circuit which was to be another EFATO. So anyways, the instructor pulls the throttle to idle and I go through the motions, however when climbing out , at about 300AAL, the engine starts rough running. The instructor took over and tried to revive the engine by pumping the mixture, but it completely died.
The instructor acted quickly swinging the aircraft towards a paddock. It looked like we were too high for one particular paddock because we were headed for the fence and the trees, but we extended the gluide and made it into the next paddock, which btw was a smooth landing and aircrat was undamaged. We were a bit shaken afterwards but elated to be on the ground safe, we were even having a laugh about it. Fire, ambulance, and police were on scene, followed shortly by the media, which we managed to avoid by jumping a few fences.
I hope to learn from this experience to make me a safer pilot. Everytime I take off I prepare myself for this situation, i.e. looking for a field if EFATO.
Cheers
The instructor acted quickly swinging the aircraft towards a paddock. It looked like we were too high for one particular paddock because we were headed for the fence and the trees, but we extended the gluide and made it into the next paddock, which btw was a smooth landing and aircrat was undamaged. We were a bit shaken afterwards but elated to be on the ground safe, we were even having a laugh about it. Fire, ambulance, and police were on scene, followed shortly by the media, which we managed to avoid by jumping a few fences.
I hope to learn from this experience to make me a safer pilot. Everytime I take off I prepare myself for this situation, i.e. looking for a field if EFATO.
Cheers
I had an EFATO in a C1150 in Canberra last week. It was my first lesson on emergency procedures, the first two circuits were go arounds and the next two were EFATO simulations. We decided to do one more circuit which was to be another EFATO. So anyways, the instructor pulls the throttle to idle and I go through the motions, however when climbing out , at about 300AAL, the engine starts rough running. The instructor took over and tried to revive the engine by pumping the mixture, but it completely died.
The instructor acted quickly swinging the aircraft towards a paddock. It looked like we were too high for one particular paddock because we were headed for the fence and the trees, but we extended the gluide and made it into the next paddock, which btw was a smooth landing and aircrat was undamaged. We were a bit shaken afterwards but elated to be on the ground safe, we were even having a laugh about it. Fire, ambulance, and police were on scene, followed shortly by the media, which we managed to avoid by jumping a few fences.
I hope to learn from this experience to make me a safer pilot. Everytime I take off I prepare myself for this situation, i.e. looking for a field if EFATO.
Cheers
The instructor acted quickly swinging the aircraft towards a paddock. It looked like we were too high for one particular paddock because we were headed for the fence and the trees, but we extended the gluide and made it into the next paddock, which btw was a smooth landing and aircrat was undamaged. We were a bit shaken afterwards but elated to be on the ground safe, we were even having a laugh about it. Fire, ambulance, and police were on scene, followed shortly by the media, which we managed to avoid by jumping a few fences.
I hope to learn from this experience to make me a safer pilot. Everytime I take off I prepare myself for this situation, i.e. looking for a field if EFATO.
Cheers
Any expanation for why the engine died?
"pumping the mixture" - is not in any emergency procedures I am familiar with?
FTDC
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It was a really hot day, and they suspect "vapour lock". The aircraft took off out of the field and back to the aerodrome that evening. I'm assuming the report will be in next issue of Flight Safety Australia. I haven't been up in that particular aircraft since the incident, and I'd prefer not to for a while, or atleast not performing emergency training procedures in it.
I'm assuming he was trying to stabilize the engine as it was rough running. When your engine fails at 300ft after takeoff, I guess you just go into reaction mode. It all happened pretty quickly, it wasn't until just before we touch down that we were able to make a mayday call.
"pumping the mixture" - is not in any emergency procedures I am familiar with?
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hoopdreams
Why did you not want to talk to the media? You had a perfect opportunity to say "here is a demonstration of how safe light aircraft are, even after a loss of our one and only engine we landed the aircraft safely without any damage".
But then when the media misreport aircraft incidents everyone gets on Prune and slags them off when the reason is the pilot wasn't prepared to even make comment.
Just ask yourself why did you jump fences to escape the media? Why?
Why did you not want to talk to the media? You had a perfect opportunity to say "here is a demonstration of how safe light aircraft are, even after a loss of our one and only engine we landed the aircraft safely without any damage".
But then when the media misreport aircraft incidents everyone gets on Prune and slags them off when the reason is the pilot wasn't prepared to even make comment.
Just ask yourself why did you jump fences to escape the media? Why?
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Well the owner of the airline came to meet us at the field to take us back to the airport. The instructor went with one of the mechanics and I went with the owner. The owner wanted keep the incident as low key as possibe, so it wouldn't reflect badly on the airline/school. So we basically jumped the fence into the next field to meet another mechanic on the main road to drive us back. I also didn't want my name to be stuck with this incident, as I heard from this forum, employers can discriminate against guys who have been in emergency situations. I guess at the time it just seemed like the best thing to do, plus I don't want my mum finding out about this, she still doesn't know
Btw I got that lesson free of charge.
Btw I got that lesson free of charge.
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I have seen the engine to LST. One piston was completely destroyed, apparently from striking the exhaust valve. Unusual for an engine with only approximately a hundred hours service.
Clearly the pilot is beyond reproach.
Surprisingly enough, after doing such a good job with the forced landing, the instructor is no longer employed. Certainly a bizarre turn of events, and the rumours at Bankstown are flying around regarding this one!
Clearly the pilot is beyond reproach.
Surprisingly enough, after doing such a good job with the forced landing, the instructor is no longer employed. Certainly a bizarre turn of events, and the rumours at Bankstown are flying around regarding this one!
Thread Starter
I have seen the engine to LST. One piston was completely destroyed, apparently from striking the exhaust valve. Unusual for an engine with only approximately a hundred hours service.
Clearly the pilot is beyond reproach.
Surprisingly enough, after doing such a good job with the forced landing, the instructor is no longer employed. Certainly a bizarre turn of events, and the rumours at Bankstown are flying around regarding this one!
Clearly the pilot is beyond reproach.
Surprisingly enough, after doing such a good job with the forced landing, the instructor is no longer employed. Certainly a bizarre turn of events, and the rumours at Bankstown are flying around regarding this one!
Someone explain how a mechanical failure can be attributed to the instructor? Especially when it happened not long after takeoff? What do you have to do, takeoff with the mixture leaned to near idle cut off ?
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To assume the pilot was in some way at fault would be a farce.
This would also assume that the employer was a reasonable, rational human being.
The latest scuttlebut is that a number of other staff walked out over this accident, and the treatment of the pilot (and others) involved. Most have subsequently returned. One was sacked. Another has subsequently resigned.
The plot thickens...
This would also assume that the employer was a reasonable, rational human being.
The latest scuttlebut is that a number of other staff walked out over this accident, and the treatment of the pilot (and others) involved. Most have subsequently returned. One was sacked. Another has subsequently resigned.
The plot thickens...
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I too have heard this rumour, though i heard the word Strike involved, instead of walked out.
This would also assume that the employer was a reasonable, rational human being
What a shame
Well for those that are wondering if a pilot can contribute to an engine failure of this kind, the answer is yes. If a piston hits an exhaust valve this can usually only be caused by the valve ceasing as a result of perhaps lack of oil, overheating or some kind of lifter failure.
Jabs do have a tendency to overheat, particularly if flown at the documented maximum rate of climb, versus a faster climbout. If the aircraft was flown out fairly steeply for a prolonged period and temps were high a result like this could be expected, but not guaranteed. After a long taxi and slow climb this is conceivably possibly.
It is not uncommon for a J160 Jabiru to operate at redline CHT (with high oil temp) all day in 25 degree weather, particularly if heavily loaded due to pilot & pax weight and 130 litres of fuel on board. Most schools cruise around with 50-60 litres in the circuit for this reason. They are certainly not as robust as their larger GA counterparts and require specific operating knowledge.
Alternatively...
a. Valve Seat could have failed
b. Valve Spring could have failed
c. Fly-wheel bolts could have broken (and stuffed up the timing)
All of these could cause the valve to hit the piston.
There is a current Jab AD on the flywheel bolts, however I'd assume it was done, but then again if not done properly could have fallen off.
We shall wait and see the result...
Jabs do have a tendency to overheat, particularly if flown at the documented maximum rate of climb, versus a faster climbout. If the aircraft was flown out fairly steeply for a prolonged period and temps were high a result like this could be expected, but not guaranteed. After a long taxi and slow climb this is conceivably possibly.
It is not uncommon for a J160 Jabiru to operate at redline CHT (with high oil temp) all day in 25 degree weather, particularly if heavily loaded due to pilot & pax weight and 130 litres of fuel on board. Most schools cruise around with 50-60 litres in the circuit for this reason. They are certainly not as robust as their larger GA counterparts and require specific operating knowledge.
Alternatively...
a. Valve Seat could have failed
b. Valve Spring could have failed
c. Fly-wheel bolts could have broken (and stuffed up the timing)
All of these could cause the valve to hit the piston.
There is a current Jab AD on the flywheel bolts, however I'd assume it was done, but then again if not done properly could have fallen off.
We shall wait and see the result...
Last edited by Squawk7700; 28th Jan 2007 at 06:21.
Thread Starter
the student and instructor had the cowling open 30 mins before they took off, peering at the engine.
would be interested to hear what they were looking at/for.
I've also heard 90% of those who got told to walk are back at work now.
would be interested to hear what they were looking at/for.
I've also heard 90% of those who got told to walk are back at work now.
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Most likely trying to get the oil cap off. My experience with those plastic oil dipstick caps is that if the previous pilot is a bit over-zealous with their tightening, multigrips are a necessity, and often won't fit with the cowl left on.
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Yet another Jabiru had a complete engine failure at BK today. Luckily the pilot managed to return to land safely.
Strangely enough, this was a sistership of the other that force landed at Warwick farm last week, and operated by the same company, and with similar low hours.
One could wonder how two identical, low hour aeroplanes could suffer complete engine seizure so shortly after takeoff.
I wonder if the pilot's employment will be terminated like the previous chap.
The CP of this company must really be in a sweat - especially following the early demise of their BE76 two days ago in yet another incident.
Three accidents in ten days. Pilots terminated and resigning en-mass.
Clearly CASA should be sticking its nose in this one....
Strangely enough, this was a sistership of the other that force landed at Warwick farm last week, and operated by the same company, and with similar low hours.
One could wonder how two identical, low hour aeroplanes could suffer complete engine seizure so shortly after takeoff.
I wonder if the pilot's employment will be terminated like the previous chap.
The CP of this company must really be in a sweat - especially following the early demise of their BE76 two days ago in yet another incident.
Three accidents in ten days. Pilots terminated and resigning en-mass.
Clearly CASA should be sticking its nose in this one....
Thread Starter
really what time was that? I was at the airfield all day, didn't see much flying happening with the cloud at 800ft most of the day.
After the first Jab went in, they (the FI's) all stood together in regards to the safety of the jabs and got sacked (merely asking for a simple inspection of the fleet). Most of them eventually went back, (though the cfi got the proper sack, court case coming) and now another one goes down?
Surely they (the FI's) will draw the line somewhere, this is ridiculous! There is no way i'd play Russian roulette in a flight training organization like that. I rate my life higher than single engine instructor time
After the first Jab went in, they (the FI's) all stood together in regards to the safety of the jabs and got sacked (merely asking for a simple inspection of the fleet). Most of them eventually went back, (though the cfi got the proper sack, court case coming) and now another one goes down?
Surely they (the FI's) will draw the line somewhere, this is ridiculous! There is no way i'd play Russian roulette in a flight training organization like that. I rate my life higher than single engine instructor time