Multi-Engine runups
If you want to really test your ignition system do it in cruise...select to left or right and leave it there for a goodly
but if there is just no time then tell them what you are going to do so they are ready for it.
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Jesus wept! Are you seriously going to brief your 8 pax in a Navajo you are going to conduct a bloody run up?
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It really does make you wonder however, in my years of commercial operations I never found it necessary to conduct runups with passengers boarded. There was always time to do it before departure.
Someone earlier in the thread spoke of getting the exhaust hot and letting it warm the oil in the engine, won't work in a Navajo/Chieftain or a Shrike coz the exhaust is on top of the engine not the bottom.
Sigh, so much mis-information getting around these days.
Grandpa Aerotart
Centaurus that should have been picked up at the end of the previous flight..and I usually still do a quick mag check at idle while taxiing out in my Bo before a flight. You can do the in flight ignition system check on empty sectors...it doesn't need to be done every sector or every day for that matter...you can do a normal on ground mag check every day and the inflight one once a week.
A little common sense is all that is required. Done in flight while watching the engine monitor will show up problems long before they become obvious on a ground run up....then when you finish flying for the day you can report to the engineers that, for instance, the upper plug, #2 cylinder on the RH engine is not working terribly well...either fouled or fecked...and he spends 5 minutes changing it....instead of the usual pilot report that takes 1/2 a day to track down.
A little common sense is all that is required. Done in flight while watching the engine monitor will show up problems long before they become obvious on a ground run up....then when you finish flying for the day you can report to the engineers that, for instance, the upper plug, #2 cylinder on the RH engine is not working terribly well...either fouled or fecked...and he spends 5 minutes changing it....instead of the usual pilot report that takes 1/2 a day to track down.
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Chuck, I have the utmost respect for the vast majority of your postings, and I was not trying to have a dip at you. But there are sometimes good reasons for the manufacturer deciding to do things their way, as espoused by several others here. My point was just that. You can find problems that aren't uncovered by other methods. The MAP figure for the Cheiftain comes from Lycomings little publication on each of their engines, I am not sure if they are available anymore, and have proven useful to me in the past to explain and indeed identify some failings in engine running and setup. As for not getting anything from your post, or not having much else to learn, perish the thought!
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Dunno if you've seen them, the little pink covered ones, they are more for the engineering side, giving fuel flows, MAP, RPM, power charts, weights etc. Pity if you can't get them now, but they were never available for general use as far as I know. Some older engineering companies would probably still have them. I have ones for the L/TIO 540 and the GSIO 540 as well. (Queenair) 
Flew PA31-350 in Tas ages ago. Always did run-up etc before even the freight was loaded. Ventured into the tropics on to Britten-Norman and followed the manual. Dead-cut mag prior to shutdown was the only time engine checks were done with pax aboard. Operators vary but I recall on my PPL test at EN that the bloke testing me insisted on run-ups on the run, ride the brakes and get going.
That was over a decade ago.
That was over a decade ago.
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Ladies and gentlemen..this is your captain speaking from the flight deck of your Super Constellation. I will shortly conduct a run up of each of the four power plants. There will be a fair amount of noise and shaking and even a few minor explosions if one of the 48 spark plugs breaks down. When I check the automatic feathering cycle on each propeller there will be a sharp increase in perceived noise level that you may misconstrue as heavy handed engine handling. But never mind, sit back and relax and enjoy your flight.
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Jesus wept! Are you seriously going to brief your 8 pax in a Navajo you are going to conduct a bloody run up?
.................................................. ............................................
Jesus wept! Are you seriously going to brief your 8 pax in a Navajo you are going to conduct a bloody run up?
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Centaurus me old
We'll never see the like of them again.
The longest passenger flight was a few minutes short of 24 hrs.
Eh Eh I bet they wish they had one of Chuckles electronic whizbang analysers
We'll never see the like of them again.
Each of the Starliners have four piston powered Curtiss-Wright, turbo-compound engines, designated as R3350-98TC18EA-2. They were some of the most powerful and advanced engines ever built. Each radial engine has two circles of cylinders, one in front of the other, similar to two large wheels with the cylinders radiating from the center like spokes, making a total of 18 cylinders per engine. Each cylinder has its own ignition coil and two spark plugs. The Flight Engineer, with an ignition analyzer, keeps track of the 18 coils and 36 spark plugs on all four engines. Using 115/145 octane fuel, the engines can produce 3,400 horsepower each. They have two-stage super-chargers, direct fuel injection, manual spark advance, an auto-feather system for the propellers and three power recovery turbines on each engine, which in effect make the engines hybrids; part piston powered and part turbine powered.
Eh Eh I bet they wish they had one of Chuckles electronic whizbang analysers
The RAAF used 115/145 octane fuel in their Convair 440 Metropolitans. The high lead fuel gave greater allowable manifold pressure on take off. The downside was the plugs leaded up quickly soon after the run-up was complete. That, coupled with annoying break downs in the ignition harness at high MP often caused rough engine operation during the take off run. The rough running cleared up during the climb out - usually..
Until the RAAF Brass was convinced to obtain up-dated ignition harnesses from the US, we were plagued with occasional back firing and erratic engine operation during take off. Because the rough running always smoothed out after take off we got complacent and just kept on with these take offs. A new CO was posted in and I had the job of checking him out on the CV 440.
In those days Sydney runway 16 was the short one - around 5500 ft I recall, and of course ending at Botany Bay. The CO was in the left seat picking up ICUS hours (you had to have 150 hours on type before flying VIP's). I was QFI in the RH seat.
Nearing V1 one engine backfired loudly with oscillations of MP and RPM. The Old Man shouted "**** - shall we abort?" Mindful of the fall off into Botany Bay, and hoping it was the usual half-expected rough running I said "Christ! No Sir - keep on going!" As expected, the engine smoothed out OK.
Now back at Canberra, the US Embassy had their own aircraft - a USAF Convair 340 it was. The pilot was a highly experienced Major who had flown with the Presidential Flight in Washington. He and I were good friends and he passed a lot of knowledge my way on Convair operations. One hint being that during the run up (a lengthy process for the Convair) a good way to clear fouled plugs was to operate the primer switch with the engine at high power and in theory this would clean the plugs. The Convair had a primer switch for each engine and a prime-all-engine switch for squirting raw fuel into the manifold (or somewhere whatever).The Convair was known to suffer double engine failures in severe icing and the prime-all-engine switch delivered enough fuel to keep the engines going while the ice problem was sorted.
So at Essendon one day the pilot was running up one engine in the parking bay at the top end of runway 17 and asked the copilot to give the engine a squirt of primer for 10 seconds while the engine was at high power. The copilot said no problem Skipper and hit the prime-all-engines switch instead of the individual engine primer switch.
Now if you squirt raw 115/145 octane fuel into the high power engine that is no problem. But if a copilot stuff up occurs and it squirts into an idling engine there is a huge flame as the exhaust manifold catches fire and flames six feet high gush out of the open cowl flaps on top of the engine. It is quite spectacular really, as well as bloody scary especially at night.
Fortunately in this case the fire went out when the captain shouted crossly at the copilot who was persuaded to release the prime-all-engine switch under threats of a courts martial. Reports were filed by Essendon Tower and the Firies and the captain had no choice but to file his own report. The RAAF Brass got to hear about it and we finally got our new ignition harnesses and lived happily ever after. I forgot to say we had three such engine fires before the penny dropped it was a dangerous technique of cleaning spark plugs.
Until the RAAF Brass was convinced to obtain up-dated ignition harnesses from the US, we were plagued with occasional back firing and erratic engine operation during take off. Because the rough running always smoothed out after take off we got complacent and just kept on with these take offs. A new CO was posted in and I had the job of checking him out on the CV 440.
In those days Sydney runway 16 was the short one - around 5500 ft I recall, and of course ending at Botany Bay. The CO was in the left seat picking up ICUS hours (you had to have 150 hours on type before flying VIP's). I was QFI in the RH seat.
Nearing V1 one engine backfired loudly with oscillations of MP and RPM. The Old Man shouted "**** - shall we abort?" Mindful of the fall off into Botany Bay, and hoping it was the usual half-expected rough running I said "Christ! No Sir - keep on going!" As expected, the engine smoothed out OK.
Now back at Canberra, the US Embassy had their own aircraft - a USAF Convair 340 it was. The pilot was a highly experienced Major who had flown with the Presidential Flight in Washington. He and I were good friends and he passed a lot of knowledge my way on Convair operations. One hint being that during the run up (a lengthy process for the Convair) a good way to clear fouled plugs was to operate the primer switch with the engine at high power and in theory this would clean the plugs. The Convair had a primer switch for each engine and a prime-all-engine switch for squirting raw fuel into the manifold (or somewhere whatever).The Convair was known to suffer double engine failures in severe icing and the prime-all-engine switch delivered enough fuel to keep the engines going while the ice problem was sorted.
So at Essendon one day the pilot was running up one engine in the parking bay at the top end of runway 17 and asked the copilot to give the engine a squirt of primer for 10 seconds while the engine was at high power. The copilot said no problem Skipper and hit the prime-all-engines switch instead of the individual engine primer switch.
Now if you squirt raw 115/145 octane fuel into the high power engine that is no problem. But if a copilot stuff up occurs and it squirts into an idling engine there is a huge flame as the exhaust manifold catches fire and flames six feet high gush out of the open cowl flaps on top of the engine. It is quite spectacular really, as well as bloody scary especially at night.
Fortunately in this case the fire went out when the captain shouted crossly at the copilot who was persuaded to release the prime-all-engine switch under threats of a courts martial. Reports were filed by Essendon Tower and the Firies and the captain had no choice but to file his own report. The RAAF Brass got to hear about it and we finally got our new ignition harnesses and lived happily ever after. I forgot to say we had three such engine fires before the penny dropped it was a dangerous technique of cleaning spark plugs.
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I have worked for a number of companies flying various light twins.
Most companies have there own procedures set out on how they want run ups done, and in some cases this is in the SOP's and in the company ops manuals. You would do well to check that first and or talk to the CP to see how he/her wants it done.
Many charter companies and piston RPT companes do it differently, ive worked for places that want it done pre pax, with pax onboard in the run up bay and also on the run.
There are considerations with every technique such as loose stones, noise, if aircraft are following you on the taxi ways, if there is up or down slope on ur taxiways, or if the aircraft has had recent maintinance you might want to park in the bay empty and give it a good run up.
The last place i worked we did them on the run and this was made easy because we had to taxi up hill to the runways so we didnt have to ride the breaks. But of cause if someone is behind u, they might not be happy if ur throwing stones back all over them.
The most important thing is you follow the company ops manuals or SOP's or get advice from the CP. It is a requirement that all checklists are followed correctly for all stages of flight, and these checklists will appear in the ops manual..... so as long as u get them done lifes easy.
Most companies have there own procedures set out on how they want run ups done, and in some cases this is in the SOP's and in the company ops manuals. You would do well to check that first and or talk to the CP to see how he/her wants it done.
Many charter companies and piston RPT companes do it differently, ive worked for places that want it done pre pax, with pax onboard in the run up bay and also on the run.
There are considerations with every technique such as loose stones, noise, if aircraft are following you on the taxi ways, if there is up or down slope on ur taxiways, or if the aircraft has had recent maintinance you might want to park in the bay empty and give it a good run up.
The last place i worked we did them on the run and this was made easy because we had to taxi up hill to the runways so we didnt have to ride the breaks. But of cause if someone is behind u, they might not be happy if ur throwing stones back all over them.
The most important thing is you follow the company ops manuals or SOP's or get advice from the CP. It is a requirement that all checklists are followed correctly for all stages of flight, and these checklists will appear in the ops manual..... so as long as u get them done lifes easy.
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ITCZ said it best. Agree wholeheartedly with everything he said.
My current and previous companies require run-ups prior to first flight of the day, and certainly not with pax aboard. Like ITCZ said, the most important part about being a professional is not to rush, but to do things efficiently and correctly.
My current and previous companies require run-ups prior to first flight of the day, and certainly not with pax aboard. Like ITCZ said, the most important part about being a professional is not to rush, but to do things efficiently and correctly.
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...what's the go with "burnout" procedures? From memory that was something like 2500rpm for a fuel injected/ non turbo lycombing and lean to the point of rough running for 10sec or so.
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As far as I know there is no set procedure for burning the carp out of plugs.
If you try leaning the engine on the ground you will rarely experience fouled plugs.
Running the engine up to "burnout" the plugs just unnessesarily heats the buggery out of the engine whilst sitting on the ground with no cooling airflow.
If you try leaning the engine on the ground you will rarely experience fouled plugs.
Running the engine up to "burnout" the plugs just unnessesarily heats the buggery out of the engine whilst sitting on the ground with no cooling airflow.
