18 week Fast Track CPL course
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Thank you Neville-N for raising this, each time I read this thread the hair pricks on the back of my neck..
Justin you said.."I HEARD a that a metro is the largest A/C you can fly without ATPL, but i`m not 100% sure". NOT SURE you are the commander be sure boy, or don't do it. Next time you go to work look at your passengers they expect you to know.. Not sure? then be sure, find out.. command is not about what you write in your log book.....for crying out loud, 5 years in the right hand seat is what you need...
Justin you said.."I HEARD a that a metro is the largest A/C you can fly without ATPL, but i`m not 100% sure". NOT SURE you are the commander be sure boy, or don't do it. Next time you go to work look at your passengers they expect you to know.. Not sure? then be sure, find out.. command is not about what you write in your log book.....for crying out loud, 5 years in the right hand seat is what you need...
Thread Starter
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LOL! I think you need to invest in some razors, that is to trim those prickly neck hairs as it seems they are giving you some trouble 
. I don`t fly metro`s, I never said I did. Perhaps you should read all the posts before submitting a reply, so you know exactly what is being said. I said was that I wasn`t 100% sure whether you needed an atpl to hold a command on one.
Once again, CASA say you CAN log ICUS hours with a CPL, IF you hold a command endorsement on type... plain and simple. check your CAR
. I don`t fly metro`s, I never said I did. Perhaps you should read all the posts before submitting a reply, so you know exactly what is being said. I said was that I wasn`t 100% sure whether you needed an atpl to hold a command on one. Once again, CASA say you CAN log ICUS hours with a CPL, IF you hold a command endorsement on type... plain and simple. check your CAR
Last edited by Justin.C; 26th Feb 2007 at 02:10.
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Maybe exposure to the industry for a start
The time factor is of little consequence. The qaulity of the instruction is much more important.
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Clearly the times have changed
Neville,
The FOI mentioned in your post is by no means an isolated individual perpetuating a personal belief that ICUS "should not" be logged by someone with so little experience. This line of thought is reflected throughout GA but many of the larger regionals and airlines in fact rely on new F/O's logging ICUS.
Objectively the answer is simple: Does the pilot have a CPL (minimum)? Do they hold a COMMAND endorsement on type? (this perhaps should be the topic of discussion) A Command Instrument rating? Does the operator say they can do it? If the answer is yes to all of the above then legally the pilot can log ICUS.
As you mentioned, the good old days of hiring a pilot who already had an ATPL with thousands of hours as an F/O is well and truly gone. I think it is good time that somebody (this training mob) dispensed with this outdated way of thinking and actively looked for a way to gain hours in a non traditional way.
Watching,
I
The FOI mentioned in your post is by no means an isolated individual perpetuating a personal belief that ICUS "should not" be logged by someone with so little experience. This line of thought is reflected throughout GA but many of the larger regionals and airlines in fact rely on new F/O's logging ICUS.
Objectively the answer is simple: Does the pilot have a CPL (minimum)? Do they hold a COMMAND endorsement on type? (this perhaps should be the topic of discussion) A Command Instrument rating? Does the operator say they can do it? If the answer is yes to all of the above then legally the pilot can log ICUS.
As you mentioned, the good old days of hiring a pilot who already had an ATPL with thousands of hours as an F/O is well and truly gone. I think it is good time that somebody (this training mob) dispensed with this outdated way of thinking and actively looked for a way to gain hours in a non traditional way.
Watching,
I
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Not saying that's what I think just saying from my experience that's what a particular CASA FOI says, and therefore was gospel for the operation. They see ICUS as a means of getting experience in the LH seat whilst preparing for a command check, not a means of building time. They were talking about people having licenses and experience before even commencing ICUS.
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Justin my apology you are quite correct I didn't read the thread fully.
My wife accuses me of becoming a grump, probably just that you young fellas remind me of myself 40 years ago...Just jealous..
Enjoy every bit of your career it's the best....
My wife accuses me of becoming a grump, probably just that you young fellas remind me of myself 40 years ago...Just jealous..
Enjoy every bit of your career it's the best....
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hey what were you FT boys all dressed up for today?? looked like you were all off to a funeral or something??
that young block looked like a clown in a jacket way too big for him lol
that young block looked like a clown in a jacket way too big for him lol
Is there nothing preventing you from holding a command endorsement on a type that would require you to have an ATPL to fly? It seems like a double standard..."yes we'll let you have a command endorsement, but no, we won't let you fly it as PIC!"
Moderator
Just my thoughts....
To log ICUS surely you need to be not only endorsed, but also LICENCED on type, ie ATPL? with the associated 250 hours in command, 1500 hours total, be over 21 years old etc? The metros flying around these parts weigh 7484kg from memory......
Would hate to see these studes who think they have found "the easy way" to find themselves stuck in RHS (with only 50% of hours counting) for years and years.......after having to buy the job as well...unable to move on, either to LHS or to purchse another endorsement?
All that glitters is not gold......caveat emptor.
To log ICUS surely you need to be not only endorsed, but also LICENCED on type, ie ATPL? with the associated 250 hours in command, 1500 hours total, be over 21 years old etc? The metros flying around these parts weigh 7484kg from memory......
Would hate to see these studes who think they have found "the easy way" to find themselves stuck in RHS (with only 50% of hours counting) for years and years.......after having to buy the job as well...unable to move on, either to LHS or to purchse another endorsement?
All that glitters is not gold......caveat emptor.
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Heard this week 3 CFI's have resigned from their flying schools to move onto better jobs and their schools can't replace them!!! Its a happening thing now!!! Next the majors will be wondering how to train pilots quicker - Supply and Demand changes everything!!
Charlie Foxtrot India
You don’t need to have an ATPL to hold a P1 rating on something like a Metro or even a B747 for that matter in RPT ops. The only restriction is you can’t be in command. You can log ICUS or P1US though which you would do every time you are pilot flying. When you are pilot not flying you log P2.
poorlypaidpilot
You will find that CAR 5.173 (2) states that of the 250 hours command required for the issue of an Australian ATPL, 150 hours of it can be ICUS.
You don’t need to have an ATPL to hold a P1 rating on something like a Metro or even a B747 for that matter in RPT ops. The only restriction is you can’t be in command. You can log ICUS or P1US though which you would do every time you are pilot flying. When you are pilot not flying you log P2.
poorlypaidpilot
You will find that CAR 5.173 (2) states that of the 250 hours command required for the issue of an Australian ATPL, 150 hours of it can be ICUS.
Yep that one was changed a few years ago on the quiet. You used to have to have 500 COMMAND. Love to see the justification for such a significant devaluation of the license. ATPL with a 100 Command, really isn't enough IMHO.
neville_nobody
I realise the latest copy of the CAR’s indicates that that particular page was last amended in 2003 but I should point out that my copy is from 2000 with the last previous amendment in 1998. A tad more than a few years I would say.
It would be interesting if someone has an original copy of the CAR 1988 to see what the requirement was back then. I did my ATPL’s in 1995 and don’t recall the requirements being any different to what they are today. I could be wrong though as my memory is a little faded.
I realise the latest copy of the CAR’s indicates that that particular page was last amended in 2003 but I should point out that my copy is from 2000 with the last previous amendment in 1998. A tad more than a few years I would say.
It would be interesting if someone has an original copy of the CAR 1988 to see what the requirement was back then. I did my ATPL’s in 1995 and don’t recall the requirements being any different to what they are today. I could be wrong though as my memory is a little faded.
