Acknowledgment! Yes or No?
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Acknowledgment! Yes or No?
More and more companies are now advertising for pilots but am i the only one that after you make the effort to apply you hear nothing back?? I must have now sent in excess of 200 emails and letters with a reply from maybe 4 or 5..
I have over 1600Hrs with 1000 multi and 670 turbine and it appears i cant even get a job back on a single
... Im also an Ame so more than willing to help out around the place but still nothing!!
Is there really a need for them to advertise are they that short of guys/girls on file?? And what point do u have to not pack up and jump into the car and start knocking on doors?? Is there a point if your not sitting in there drive when they need someone you can get a job??
I have over 1600Hrs with 1000 multi and 670 turbine and it appears i cant even get a job back on a single
... Im also an Ame so more than willing to help out around the place but still nothing!!Is there really a need for them to advertise are they that short of guys/girls on file?? And what point do u have to not pack up and jump into the car and start knocking on doors?? Is there a point if your not sitting in there drive when they need someone you can get a job??
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Hi Beer,
You should put an add in the australian, listing essential criteria and see how many hundreds apply that do not come even near all the minimums.
Unless you meet all the essential criteria, dont expect anything.
Want some statistics, a company i worked for put an add on the AFAP website with essential criteria listed, tt 1500 plus a few other essentials.
Of the applicants, total of 246, those that did not meet them amounted to 239, 7 that did.
Of the 239, two did not even have a licence yet, and another 15 that did not have Australian licences.
Many companies do not have HR departments, CP always prioritise their workload, responding to pilots that apply for a position having not met all the minimums is very very far down the to-do list.
You should put an add in the australian, listing essential criteria and see how many hundreds apply that do not come even near all the minimums.
Unless you meet all the essential criteria, dont expect anything.
Want some statistics, a company i worked for put an add on the AFAP website with essential criteria listed, tt 1500 plus a few other essentials.
Of the applicants, total of 246, those that did not meet them amounted to 239, 7 that did.
Of the 239, two did not even have a licence yet, and another 15 that did not have Australian licences.
Many companies do not have HR departments, CP always prioritise their workload, responding to pilots that apply for a position having not met all the minimums is very very far down the to-do list.
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gas-chamber
LRT is spot-on. Chief Pilots have to prioritise and most only reply to the ones of immediate interest. Rude? Not these days. e.g. just try applying on-line and find you can't fill in one field - it all gets spat out. I recently toyed with the idea of getting back in to the game full time by applying to a foreign airline that actually stated in its website that pilots over age 60 were welcome. After filling in all the myriad fields of name, rank, serial number, blood type etc etc, got to date of birth (only just 61) and it told me to piss off - too old.
Do I write to them ? Nah - if they are that incompetent that they can't fix something so basic in a program they are not really short of pilots, or if they are they deserve to be. I don't need to waste the postage. Should I bull**** and make my age 59 and 11 months? Nah - never lied about age or experience yet, so why start now and anyway fakes usually get caught out.
Now, if you are at the other end of the job spectrum and if as your profile says, living in Sydney, you will NEVER get a job by writing letters. You have to throw a mattress in an old Kombi van and drive a very long way north and west and when you get to bumf..k nowhere, bail the local operator up in the pub, buy him a beer, promise to lick his airplanes clean every nite and you will eventually get that 1st job. Don't stop at the nice places en route because they are already full of wannabes and just-got-the-job-last-weekers .
'taint no other way.
Do I write to them ? Nah - if they are that incompetent that they can't fix something so basic in a program they are not really short of pilots, or if they are they deserve to be. I don't need to waste the postage. Should I bull**** and make my age 59 and 11 months? Nah - never lied about age or experience yet, so why start now and anyway fakes usually get caught out.
Now, if you are at the other end of the job spectrum and if as your profile says, living in Sydney, you will NEVER get a job by writing letters. You have to throw a mattress in an old Kombi van and drive a very long way north and west and when you get to bumf..k nowhere, bail the local operator up in the pub, buy him a beer, promise to lick his airplanes clean every nite and you will eventually get that 1st job. Don't stop at the nice places en route because they are already full of wannabes and just-got-the-job-last-weekers .
'taint no other way.
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We advertised on AFAP for a CFI position in Melbourne with "salary commesurate with experience" and got only 4 applicants. There were a couple more but they were from OS and seemingly just a blanket email. It's like there's a shortage of CFI's or someone who is able to become a CFI. Seems too that droves of instructors are moving over to RA-Aus as well and many of them focusing on this as it's as busy as hell.
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When the boss and I were going through all the CVs when we were looking for a pilot, we narrowed the list of well over 100 applications down to around 15 or so. To "cull" the list even more we looked at the professionalism of the CV and email they sent us (yes thats right we hired over an email and a phone call conversation for a 1st job)
The biggest turn off was the fact that they emailed us with "non-professional" email addresses such as (just making them up, but words to this effect ) topgun007, jetcaptain, 747pilot, maverickpilot etc. Isnt it too hard to setup an NORMAL email address (such as your name) and use it for business or job searching??
Also, what is it with people attaching photos to their CV, mainly of them with the ole one armer over the prop (not so safe!) or them in their uniform near one of their flying school aeroplanes, or the best was one in a B747 cockpit with the good old two thumbs up! And before you ask, yes some chicks did apply with photos attached.
CMN
The biggest turn off was the fact that they emailed us with "non-professional" email addresses such as (just making them up, but words to this effect ) topgun007, jetcaptain, 747pilot, maverickpilot etc. Isnt it too hard to setup an NORMAL email address (such as your name) and use it for business or job searching??
Also, what is it with people attaching photos to their CV, mainly of them with the ole one armer over the prop (not so safe!) or them in their uniform near one of their flying school aeroplanes, or the best was one in a B747 cockpit with the good old two thumbs up! And before you ask, yes some chicks did apply with photos attached.
CMN
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Two Quick questions 1. how much of that time is command?
2. Was that gained with a cadetship/traineeship?
You need to get out there A.S.A.P, we bin resumes everyday. I'm surprised you heard back from anyone at all. If your time consists of Co-pilot or ICUS only you are more likely to be considered as a 500 hour pilot rather than a 1600 hour pilot. It sucks I know but that is the reality.
Go for a drive and see the countryside. with the right attitude you will succeed
. Your engineering backround may help you with companies like Golden Eagle in W.A.
Best of Luck
2. Was that gained with a cadetship/traineeship?
You need to get out there A.S.A.P, we bin resumes everyday. I'm surprised you heard back from anyone at all. If your time consists of Co-pilot or ICUS only you are more likely to be considered as a 500 hour pilot rather than a 1600 hour pilot. It sucks I know but that is the reality.
Go for a drive and see the countryside. with the right attitude you will succeed
. Your engineering backround may help you with companies like Golden Eagle in W.A. Best of Luck
Beeroclock
If you PM me a breakdown of your experience (types/command on each etc)and if near what my company needs I'll put it in front of the person that matters here if you like.
Make sure you supply a contact number and at least a first name....
Regards,
OpsN.
Make sure you supply a contact number and at least a first name....
Regards,
OpsN.
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Hey opsnormal,
I passed 1800hrs the other day and 400 multi.
How are things going?
it got down to -38 three or four weeks ago. Great fun flying in the snow.
I passed 1800hrs the other day and 400 multi.
How are things going?
it got down to -38 three or four weeks ago. Great fun flying in the snow.
Applied via email for a position FO. Location east of Brisbane. Have several hundred hours on type. Reply was p*&^s off and if any vacancies we'll be in touch. Fellow visits tropical paradise with zero time on type, applies and gets the position I was advised to apply for. Moral of 'Johnny on the spot' works.
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No excuse for not replying to an application. Common courtesy calls for a response. If you addressed a person verbally, you would be looking for a response. Or are you expecting to be ignored. A no response in my view is looked on as "dumb insolence" weather verbal or written.
If these so called Chief pilot's say they haven't got time to provide a reply, then that's BS. Make time!!
A response is also a good indication a how a company values it's work force IMHO.
Yes I am aware that the no response bridgade is a cancer that is wide spread but that doesn't mean to say it is right.
If these so called Chief pilot's say they haven't got time to provide a reply, then that's BS. Make time!!
A response is also a good indication a how a company values it's work force IMHO.
Yes I am aware that the no response bridgade is a cancer that is wide spread but that doesn't mean to say it is right.
Last edited by Formally Known As; 6th Jan 2007 at 14:55.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
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Formally known as. You hit the nail on the head I think....... well, at least echo my thoughts exactly. Even a standard templated letter only takes a quick push of a button to print and send out.
I remember my first mail drop, a hundred or so years ago (well it feels like it) I sent out 60 letters, including self addressed stamped envelopes. I got 6 back.
I now know a lot more about the industry than I did back then, and am glad some never bothered and surprised some of the bigger, better ones didn't. I might add that of those that did, all but one are still in business and still desirable employers, and about a third of the ones that didn't reply have remained in business, and most carry with them the reputation of not being the people you would want to work for. I guess their attitude shows through their arrogance.
I remember my first mail drop, a hundred or so years ago (well it feels like it) I sent out 60 letters, including self addressed stamped envelopes. I got 6 back.
I now know a lot more about the industry than I did back then, and am glad some never bothered and surprised some of the bigger, better ones didn't. I might add that of those that did, all but one are still in business and still desirable employers, and about a third of the ones that didn't reply have remained in business, and most carry with them the reputation of not being the people you would want to work for. I guess their attitude shows through their arrogance.
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I don't think you guys really understand how long it takes to respond to 240 odd applicants.
Wiz, i have seen the generic response letter sent out, guess what, a few of these guys rang and emailed telling how offended they where to receive a generic response, even though most of these guys were no where near meeting the essential criteria.
The big point i'm trying to make, is if you do not meet the minimums of the advertisement, you may be viewed as a time waster. Near all applications a company receives are generic resumes, near all do not address the selection critieria.
Suggestions:
A one page Resume, if the advertisement lists essential criteria, address them specifically in your introduction letter.
If the ad says "No Calls", respect that.
Do not use wedding photo's or similar.
If you were a cadet with lots of copilot time, do not try to candy coat it, focus on what you've done since, if thats nothing, do not be offended when your 1600 tt, 900 turbine copilot, finds you being considered with 3-500tt resumes.
Do not list WWF wrestling as an interest
.
Your Weight on your resume is a good thing for GA Charter, this is a factor in employment, yeh yeh discrimination blah blah blah, good luck proving that one.
Do not candy coat anything, working as a drinks guy at pizza hut is not " a beverages manager for an international food chain ".
Email address, as said earlier, do not have immature email address such as "Buttmunch@hotmail" or "BaronKaptain@yahoo", just your name is fine.
If you have a trade or other skill, make it known, for example being a electrician will get your foot in the door before others.
Plan ahead, if you are going to Kununurra or similar, get a bus licence, first aid certificate, these will help you.
When you do get a start, do not ever ever ever work for free, Chief Pilots you talk too in the future will throw your resume in the bin for that offence.
Good Luck
Wiz, i have seen the generic response letter sent out, guess what, a few of these guys rang and emailed telling how offended they where to receive a generic response, even though most of these guys were no where near meeting the essential criteria.
The big point i'm trying to make, is if you do not meet the minimums of the advertisement, you may be viewed as a time waster. Near all applications a company receives are generic resumes, near all do not address the selection critieria.
Suggestions:
A one page Resume, if the advertisement lists essential criteria, address them specifically in your introduction letter.
If the ad says "No Calls", respect that.
Do not use wedding photo's or similar.
If you were a cadet with lots of copilot time, do not try to candy coat it, focus on what you've done since, if thats nothing, do not be offended when your 1600 tt, 900 turbine copilot, finds you being considered with 3-500tt resumes.
Do not list WWF wrestling as an interest
.Your Weight on your resume is a good thing for GA Charter, this is a factor in employment, yeh yeh discrimination blah blah blah, good luck proving that one.
Do not candy coat anything, working as a drinks guy at pizza hut is not " a beverages manager for an international food chain ".
Email address, as said earlier, do not have immature email address such as "Buttmunch@hotmail" or "BaronKaptain@yahoo", just your name is fine.
If you have a trade or other skill, make it known, for example being a electrician will get your foot in the door before others.
Plan ahead, if you are going to Kununurra or similar, get a bus licence, first aid certificate, these will help you.
When you do get a start, do not ever ever ever work for free, Chief Pilots you talk too in the future will throw your resume in the bin for that offence.
Good Luck
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
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LHRT. I would be far happier receiving the generic "thanks, we'll keep you in file for future reference" than nothing at all. Especially if the self addressed stamped envelope was sent with the resume.
Fair enough if the applicant doesn't meet the criteria for the position, maybe just a reply listing minimums and a generic thanks but no thanks type of letter, but some sort of response is warranted.
As was mentioned before, if you asked someone something face to face and they chose to ignore you, anyone would be quite offended.
Surely you don't get 240 resumes every day?. It takes less time to hit the print button than it does to read a resume. Good tips on the resume writing there,and I have read my fair share of them as well (and replied to them all).
I should say that I would only expect a response from a resume that came with a introductory letter. Just a resume in an envelope should be treated as a resource to be used if required or not.
I have had them show up without return addresses or contact details.
Anyone expecting a reply should at least take the trouble to include an introduction letter and a self addressed stamped envelope......Not a real big ask.
Fair enough if the applicant doesn't meet the criteria for the position, maybe just a reply listing minimums and a generic thanks but no thanks type of letter, but some sort of response is warranted.
As was mentioned before, if you asked someone something face to face and they chose to ignore you, anyone would be quite offended.
Surely you don't get 240 resumes every day?. It takes less time to hit the print button than it does to read a resume. Good tips on the resume writing there,and I have read my fair share of them as well (and replied to them all).
I should say that I would only expect a response from a resume that came with a introductory letter. Just a resume in an envelope should be treated as a resource to be used if required or not.
I have had them show up without return addresses or contact details.
Anyone expecting a reply should at least take the trouble to include an introduction letter and a self addressed stamped envelope......Not a real big ask.