Tailwheel Vs Tricycle

[jethrolx]

Hi all, I am just about to start flying lessons, and in shopping around for a school I have come across a dilema. One of the schools I went to said they insist on instructing on tailwheel aircraft as it makes you a better pilot. Most other flight schools only offer it as an endorsement. Does learning on tailwheel make you a better pilot? or does it just mean you can fly a tailwheel??
All input greatly appreciated.

[Tail_Wheel]

You called?

[heywatchthis]

What kind of Tailwheel aircraft do they use for training??

I did my initial training in a piper cub, then for PPL Cessna 172 and CPL did it all in the Cessna 180. So I got a bit of mix. My first 1200 hours of flying was dropping meat, and about 500 of that was in Tailwheels, 180/185 & T-Beaver. So it helped me get a start, apart from that there is not too many operators out there with tailwheels, unless you go AG.
Competent tailwheel pilots are a dying breed.

These days with the cost of flight training, my advice would be to take the most cost effective route, if that is in a dragger then score!
If not then do the rating for the experience, you will not be dissapointed!

Enjoy

[VH-XXX]

I think it's a good idea to start in tailwheel, aside from the fact that it may take a little longer to learn, you'll benefit later by having a larger range of aircraft that you can fly.

I don't have tailwheel and I must admit that when someone says, "hey, come for a fly in my Decath" I wish I had it... it will open up some otherwise closed doors for you.

[kookabat]

Does learning on tailwheel make you a better pilot? or does it just mean you can fly a tailwheel??

BOTH!!
Just started my taildragger conversion and I'm learning lots about when and how to use the two things on the ends of my legs that have never really been needed before in the old Cherokee... Cherokees don't have rudder pedals, they have FOOTRESTS!! Would have loved to start off in them - I do know someone who, in the last year or so, first soloed in a Tiger Moth...

It'd just get you into good habits from the start.

[Ratshit]

What a load of nonsense!

Do yourself a favour and learn in a trike. It will likely be cheaper and certainly easier.

Then go get a tailwheel endorsement with an instructor who can actually really fly a taildragger - not just take you through the motions of a tailwheel endorsement.

The best taildragger pilots I know all learnt in trikes (cause that's what was used for ab initio!). These guys can make a taidragger talk!

Mastering the little wheel on the arse WILL make you a better stick and rudder pilot - but you don't need to do your ab initio on one to achieve the same result.

R

[Centaurus]

VH-XXX.

I think it's a good idea to start in tailwheel, aside from the fact that it may take a little longer to learn

I don't know about that. Average time to first solo at aero clubs when I learned to fly on Tiger Moths was between 8 to 10 hours. In the RAAF, if you were not solo by 12 hours you were scrubbed - often quite unfairly I might might add.

Have a look at the average time to first solo now and I think you will find it is about 15-20 hours with the occasional student getting away at 8 hours and others as much as 30 hours. That said, much depends on the skill and experience of your instructor.

Chances are the instructor training you on a tail-wheel is more experienced than those instructors with bare instructor ratings and low total hours. The trend towards more hours to first solo has gradually changed over the intervening years and reflects not the perceived compexity of the Cessna 150/172/Warrior trainers, but more a combination of ATC influence in city areas, inexperienced instructors and last but not least the distance to the training area. In Melbourne this means transit times to Bacchus Marsh and Point Cook both of which can add significantly to the cost and additional dual log book hours.

[Bendo]

Bugger me!

...the average time to first solo now ...is about 15-20 hours...

Another good reason to leave the capital cities and learn to fly in the bush. Very few of my students take more than 12 hours to solo with many of them taking less than 10 hours. ALL the students under 30 fall into this second group.

If the "tailwheel only" school is the one in Camden, they have an excellent reputation. That said, 200 hours is a lot of flying training and I am sure you could put a TW endorsement in there somewhere.

My personal bias is towards tailwheels over nosewheels

[bushy]

Nonsense

We are getting bogged down with all sorts of counterproductive nonsense, in everything to do with flying. It's holding us back.
I learned to fly in a Piper Cub, and went solo the first day, after four hours.
What's happening today is hard to believe.

[Delta]

Originally Posted by Tail_Wheel

You called?

crack me up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hehehe

[Wheeler]

Can anyone suggest there is a better trainer than a C152?

If anything puts you off in the early stages it will be a Citabria - twitchy, nasty unforgiving little things..

BTW what does a tail wheel actually teach you other than you must keep it straight, be well on top of it if looks like going at all sideways and how to land in a three point attitude? You can fly a C152 really neatly too - it just wont punish you as badly if you get it slightly wrong during your early stages, which you will.

[Andy_RR]

Originally Posted by Rat****

What a load of nonsense!
The best taildragger pilots I know all learnt in trikes (cause that's what was used for ab initio!). These guys can make a taidragger talk!

Yeah, but I bet if you asked them now, they'd all wish they'd started on tailwheel.

The down side to learning in something like a Cub, is that everything tricycle and spamcan will be on the slightly dull side.

The up side is that you will learn to land correctly because you can't get away with not doing so, unlike a tricycle where bad habits are less likely to have you bouncing the width of the runway.

Whatever you choose, enjoy!

A

[slackie]

Real aeroplanes have tailwheels!!

You really don't use your feet until you fly a taildragger.

Did 90% of my flying in trikes up until a couple of years ago, and now I do 99% of it in taildraggers (through choice)...whether it be a Cub, Citabria, Maverick, or Pitts....you certainly discover that your feet are useful for more than just walking to and from the aeroplane!!!!

The old addage of "don't finish flying until the aircraft is tied down" is certainly more true of taildraggers....in a trike you pretty much stop flying once you touch down on the runway....but try that in something like a Pitts and it'll bite you...even on the taxiway!!!

Trikes certainly are MUCH easier to handle on the ground (and getting off and back onto the ground )...in the air there is little difference....except I haven't found a trike yet that handles anything like the Pitts ANYWHERE!!!

As I said in the title....Real aeroplanes have tailwheels

[tinpis]

Bushy

We are getting bogged down with all sorts of counterproductive nonsense, in everything to do with flying. It's holding us back.
I learned to fly in a Piper Cub, and went solo the first day, after four hours.
What's happening today is hard to believe.

Absolutely... same for me... 4 hours 20 minutes

[Wombat35]

Right, time for me to wade in on this one.

As an owner of a tailwheeler and instructor, I would say go learn in a trike first. At least go solo in a trike before moving into a tailwheel aircraft. It would be better value for your money and take a little of the risk out of you ab initio phase.

They are really no different to a Cessna except for the important factor of the C of G, tailwheel relationship and that makes them more unforgiving in some aspect of the take-off and landing. For that reason alone you just need to get some time under you belt first and cut down on the techniques that you need to learn initially.

I feel sorry for you Wheeler mate, simply you have been taught incorrectly to fly them (7GCBC's) if that's you opinion ... ... (If you are in NZ any time, I'd be happy to set you off again in the right direction ).

Hope this helps and good luck with whatever decision you make. Sounds like you are going to have some fun.

Cheers

Wombat

[psycho joe]

tailwheel make you a better pilot? or does it just mean you can fly a tailwheel??

It means you can fly a tailwheel. Tail draggers were made back when they didn't know any better.

One of the schools I went to said they insist on instructing on tailwheel aircraft as it makes you a better pilot.

Better than what? If you really want to learn excellent hand/foot coordination then go and learn to fly a helicopter. Or better still learn to fly a trike properly.

[M14_P]

cubs

I know of an instructor who owns his own Cub, and is taking on a fresh student next year, who is going to do all his training, start to finish, in the Cub, obviously not IF stuff...What a way to do it though, I wish I had the chance to train on a tailwheel machine from the beginning. It does open new doors one would say, but to whom? Most people have ambitions for the airlines, a tail rating won't be of much use. Personally, the reason why I got one, is down the track, the best aerobatic machines are all light tail draggers, do better to get a feel for it now now than struggle with it badly later...

[Aynayda Pizaqvick]

Learning on taildraggers certainly won't make you fly better - once they're off the ground they are both the same. But if you want to make the bit between dispersal and getting airborne more difficult then go for the taildragger.
Taildraggers are an inherently unstable design, hence why they are very rarely found on modern military or civil aircraft these days, but if your goal is to fly off bush strips and the likes in a C185 then it is obvious which way should lean.
I would say go with a trike until you find a NEED or develop an overwhelming desire to fly a taildragger. If you decide you just want something to get your feet moving and make you a better pilot then do an Aerobatics rating - this will greatly assist your hand eye coordination as well as your ability to handle an aircraft near its limits while AIRBORNE! In my opinion this would be far more useful!

[Mount'in Man]

Originally Posted by psycho joe

It means you can fly a tailwheel. Tail draggers were made back when they didn't know any better.



Better than what? If you really want to learn excellent hand/foot coordination then go and learn to fly a helicopter. Or better still learn to fly a trike properly.

Any old Joe can fly a tricycle, psychotic or otherwise! Tail-draggers? Now there is a challenge.
There was a time when they were commonly known as ‘conventional’ undercarriage. You folk seem to think they are unconventional. Not so, just more demanding if you have only ever flown a tricycle.
Lets shoot down some myths. Back in the days when they were conventional very few folk got their butts into a tricycle unless it was an airliner and even some of those were ‘draggers.
It still took the same time to go solo – about six or seven hours. Students had more skill on the stick and rudder, therefore seemed to get it together a little better. Fields were all grass, you just took off right in front of the ramp – same with landing, you rolled out in front of the hangar and just backed her up to the door.
‘Draggers weren’t difficult to fly … no one knew any better!
Above fifty feet a dragger is no different to a trike.
Below fifty feet you don’t sit around fat, dumb and happy like a trike pilot.
The landing attitude (if you three point) is definitely stalled. Don’t even think about releasing back pressure on the stick until ten knots or so above stopped.
If you want to vary your skill, wheel her on! Now there is a buzz.
Crosswinds – yep, ‘dragger pilots shine in those conditions because their butts are gripping the seat (suction) and their feet are working along with everything else including brain.
Taxy a ‘dragger and you need to be weather smart, particularly on ice or with a full-castoring tail wheel. If wind is from the left and you want to go right don’t turn right. Turn left thru a three-quarter circle – much easier.
Sometimes ground loops (very slow ones) can help you maneuver backwards but I better not go there!

[sailing]

As I said in the title....Real aeroplanes have tailwheels[/quote]

Almost correct....Real aeroplanes have tailSKIDS (and are made by DeHavilland!).

(Dons tin helmet and crouches lower in foxhole)