IFR planning ahead.
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IFR planning ahead.
I just did a flight in a Seminole on an IFR Flight Plan after 2 months of doing basic instruction. I found myself way behind the aircraft and even forgot to tune the fwd aid because I was tracking on the VOR behind me.
I was wondering if there are any IFR instructors or charter pilots who could give me some sort of checklist or acronym that would assist me and prevent me from making similar errors.
Would it also be possible to obtain power settings and configurations for flying an ILS and as to where I should select flap for the initial intercept of the LLZ and the config down the glide slope.
Any information would be appreciated.
I was wondering if there are any IFR instructors or charter pilots who could give me some sort of checklist or acronym that would assist me and prevent me from making similar errors.
Would it also be possible to obtain power settings and configurations for flying an ILS and as to where I should select flap for the initial intercept of the LLZ and the config down the glide slope.
Any information would be appreciated.
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The key to any IFR flight is pre-flight planning. Trying to stay ahead of the a/c at first can be difficult, however practice makes perfect. The best way to get a jump on the a/c is start on the ground. Use all available resources, weather, charts, routing, ATC etc. And have a picture in your head of how you want the flight to go..
You can make yourself up a template and stick it on your kneeboard or what ever you use. Listing in order freq's for Nav aid's etc, even a couple of off route aids just incase. As well as having all the required charts/approach plates.
When getting vectored for an approach the speed depends on the a/c and the environment(ATC,WX,TERRAIN). I have never flown a seminole so dont know the exact speeds. When being vectored or on an ILS, situational awareness plays a big roll in the accuracy of the approach. If you know you are on a bad intercept you can mention to the controller so he can help you, otherwise you might find yourself S-turning the whole way down. Also knowing your position in regards to LLZ at any given time should there be conflicting TERRAIN.
Ideally in bad soupy weather you would like to be fully configured (Full Flap, gear down etc) at the FAF (Glideslope intercept)
Did this in the PA31 and do it exactly the same in the Lear,
Two dots high, flap 8.
One dot high, flaps 20 gear down, before landing checks.
G/S intercept full flap, start your time. Ride the slide.
Now if the weather is VFR shooting a full ILS in a seminole fully configured can take a while, so maybe just hold off on full flap for a while. Do not hold off on the gear, if you do you might forget it! Always make sure you have the gear down and green before the FAF. If you are on a short vector for an ILS, maybe get some flap out whilst being vectored to help you stay ahead of the game. As for power settings ask your instructor or an instructor on the a/c.
Lastly, Dont duck under mins, even to take a quick look!! Many people have become lawn darts doing just that. Set your own standards according to your experience and the most important rule of all...
ALWAYS HAVE AN ESCAPE PLAN, A PLAN B!!!
You can make yourself up a template and stick it on your kneeboard or what ever you use. Listing in order freq's for Nav aid's etc, even a couple of off route aids just incase. As well as having all the required charts/approach plates.
When getting vectored for an approach the speed depends on the a/c and the environment(ATC,WX,TERRAIN). I have never flown a seminole so dont know the exact speeds. When being vectored or on an ILS, situational awareness plays a big roll in the accuracy of the approach. If you know you are on a bad intercept you can mention to the controller so he can help you, otherwise you might find yourself S-turning the whole way down. Also knowing your position in regards to LLZ at any given time should there be conflicting TERRAIN.
Ideally in bad soupy weather you would like to be fully configured (Full Flap, gear down etc) at the FAF (Glideslope intercept)
Did this in the PA31 and do it exactly the same in the Lear,
Two dots high, flap 8.
One dot high, flaps 20 gear down, before landing checks.
G/S intercept full flap, start your time. Ride the slide.
Now if the weather is VFR shooting a full ILS in a seminole fully configured can take a while, so maybe just hold off on full flap for a while. Do not hold off on the gear, if you do you might forget it! Always make sure you have the gear down and green before the FAF. If you are on a short vector for an ILS, maybe get some flap out whilst being vectored to help you stay ahead of the game. As for power settings ask your instructor or an instructor on the a/c.
Lastly, Dont duck under mins, even to take a quick look!! Many people have become lawn darts doing just that. Set your own standards according to your experience and the most important rule of all...
ALWAYS HAVE AN ESCAPE PLAN, A PLAN B!!!
Grandpa Aerotart
Novicef
As ar as staying ahead of the game that just comes with experience mostly. Sure you can do lots of things to help but really most of them are just crutches.
If you get into the habit of over preparing the night before you will reduce your flexibility...you won't develope the skills required to do IFR flights that come up with less than 24hr->1 weeks notice...i.e the real world. The last job I had before the present one was a corporate jet captain based in Asia. That job required me to be airborne within 2 hrs of a phone call, often at 0200LT to anywhere In Asia or the ME. Without a word of a lie the first year my reaction to the phone call was "where is that?" as often as not and on at least one occassion even the country, Bhutan, didn't ring a bell let alone the only airport they owned capable of jet operations...it is in the Himalayas just east of Nepal.
Yes we had dispatchers to collate all the necesary paperwork but that still left 2 hrs for me to ****, shower,shave, drive to the airport, read the notams/ wx/ flightplan as they came off the printer, walk out to the jet (being prepared for departure by our Maintenance controller and the FO in terms of preflight inspection, catering etc), get in and do my preflight stuff as we were towed over to the internation apron, clear customs, load the pax and taxi for departure...usually we were wheels up around 1+50....in every case if we were delayed it was late pax.
How should you prepare yourself to be a competent, safe IFR pilot...to maybe one day command such an operation without it stressing you into an early grave?
The great trick in IFR flying is time management...what is important right now and for the next xx time...what should I be thinking about?
If you do a search using 'DME Arcs' you will find some stuff I wrote a few years ago on how to read plates, plan departures and arrivals etc. When you can do those things in minutes in a logical fashion that tends to free up spare time and thinking capacity that allows you to give thought to 'what ifs' and to other aspects of the route etc.
Enroute you simply need to develope habit patterns with the enroute charts that maximise situational awareness in terms of what navaids define my position best, where would I go if an engine failed, are the route LSALTs to high for the performance of the aircraft (why are you there if IMC) GPS has tended to make people lazy in these areas...believe me IFR flying pre GPS was a different world
You don't develope good habit patterns when you rarely ever do something...hence the value of experience that is rarely attended the import it deserves by many young people today.
As to how to fly your particular aircraft during an IAL procedure?
I have not flown the Seminole but I have a little time in the Duchess so I will use that experience to base some things I would like you to consider.
First if you're flying an ILS in Australia it automatically follows that you're at a major airport mixing it with much faster traffic.
Do you think therefore the above recomendation of flying fully configured from the FAF is an idea that will indear you to everyone else sharing that airspace with you?
If you're answer is "no" do you think you should be comfortable and practiced in flying realtively high speed approaches?
If you're answer is "yes" I would like you to consider flying your ILS, and other approaches in the Seminole and other like aircrat extending only the gear at some appropriate point in the approach and flying the aircraft clean the rest of the time.
What are the ramifications of doing so?
Well for starters it minimises distractions from flying the aeroplane, it minimises unsettling trim changes and it sets you up for an easier missed approach if you don't get visual. Clearly you have the brains to adapt this method to suit the conditions...if there are strong indications that you will be comfortably visual early in the approach, say 500->1000', there is nothing stopping you configuring further once you're visual. If you're expecting to get visual just above the minima landing flapless is a non event in that class of aeroplane (or should be) if you don't get visual the initial missed approach manouver just became a lot simpler...especially on one engine.
When is an appropriate time to extend the gear...purely subjectively I would suggest 1000->1500 agl...about where you might on a visual straight in approach.
Now in the class of aeroplane you're currently in if you apply the above to every IAL procedure, and it does work with them all, haven't you simplified all that leads up to the last 1000' to the DH/MDA?
What happens if you need to circle off the approach...do you want to do that fully configured or would just gear down be better?
As for timing the ILS mentioned above? Don't!!!
Once you start flying bigger piston twins and turbines all you need to do to modify the above for those aeroplanes is select approach flap comfortably before the IAF...and about 120Kt works for an 'approach flap set' manouvering speed in all the bigger, faster piston twins and 130 is a good ball park for the Turbines. Then fly the rest of it as for the seminole.
In fact I would go as far as to gaurantee you that the above methodology will work for every aeroplane you ever fly no matter how big...all that will change is the speed...in the 767 I fly now it is Flaps 5/Vref 30+40kts (around 175kts).
If it is how you will be expected to fly larger aircraft why not start now?
Of course in bigger two crew aeroplanes you will land with all the flap but there is no need in little aeroplanes.
EDIT: Here is the link to the DME arc thread.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...light=DME+arcs
As ar as staying ahead of the game that just comes with experience mostly. Sure you can do lots of things to help but really most of them are just crutches.
If you get into the habit of over preparing the night before you will reduce your flexibility...you won't develope the skills required to do IFR flights that come up with less than 24hr->1 weeks notice...i.e the real world. The last job I had before the present one was a corporate jet captain based in Asia. That job required me to be airborne within 2 hrs of a phone call, often at 0200LT to anywhere In Asia or the ME. Without a word of a lie the first year my reaction to the phone call was "where is that?" as often as not and on at least one occassion even the country, Bhutan, didn't ring a bell let alone the only airport they owned capable of jet operations...it is in the Himalayas just east of Nepal.
Yes we had dispatchers to collate all the necesary paperwork but that still left 2 hrs for me to ****, shower,shave, drive to the airport, read the notams/ wx/ flightplan as they came off the printer, walk out to the jet (being prepared for departure by our Maintenance controller and the FO in terms of preflight inspection, catering etc), get in and do my preflight stuff as we were towed over to the internation apron, clear customs, load the pax and taxi for departure...usually we were wheels up around 1+50....in every case if we were delayed it was late pax.
How should you prepare yourself to be a competent, safe IFR pilot...to maybe one day command such an operation without it stressing you into an early grave?
The great trick in IFR flying is time management...what is important right now and for the next xx time...what should I be thinking about?
If you do a search using 'DME Arcs' you will find some stuff I wrote a few years ago on how to read plates, plan departures and arrivals etc. When you can do those things in minutes in a logical fashion that tends to free up spare time and thinking capacity that allows you to give thought to 'what ifs' and to other aspects of the route etc.
Enroute you simply need to develope habit patterns with the enroute charts that maximise situational awareness in terms of what navaids define my position best, where would I go if an engine failed, are the route LSALTs to high for the performance of the aircraft (why are you there if IMC) GPS has tended to make people lazy in these areas...believe me IFR flying pre GPS was a different world
You don't develope good habit patterns when you rarely ever do something...hence the value of experience that is rarely attended the import it deserves by many young people today.
As to how to fly your particular aircraft during an IAL procedure?
I have not flown the Seminole but I have a little time in the Duchess so I will use that experience to base some things I would like you to consider.
First if you're flying an ILS in Australia it automatically follows that you're at a major airport mixing it with much faster traffic.
Do you think therefore the above recomendation of flying fully configured from the FAF is an idea that will indear you to everyone else sharing that airspace with you?
If you're answer is "no" do you think you should be comfortable and practiced in flying realtively high speed approaches?
If you're answer is "yes" I would like you to consider flying your ILS, and other approaches in the Seminole and other like aircrat extending only the gear at some appropriate point in the approach and flying the aircraft clean the rest of the time.
What are the ramifications of doing so?
Well for starters it minimises distractions from flying the aeroplane, it minimises unsettling trim changes and it sets you up for an easier missed approach if you don't get visual. Clearly you have the brains to adapt this method to suit the conditions...if there are strong indications that you will be comfortably visual early in the approach, say 500->1000', there is nothing stopping you configuring further once you're visual. If you're expecting to get visual just above the minima landing flapless is a non event in that class of aeroplane (or should be) if you don't get visual the initial missed approach manouver just became a lot simpler...especially on one engine.
When is an appropriate time to extend the gear...purely subjectively I would suggest 1000->1500 agl...about where you might on a visual straight in approach.
Now in the class of aeroplane you're currently in if you apply the above to every IAL procedure, and it does work with them all, haven't you simplified all that leads up to the last 1000' to the DH/MDA?
What happens if you need to circle off the approach...do you want to do that fully configured or would just gear down be better?
As for timing the ILS mentioned above? Don't!!!
Once you start flying bigger piston twins and turbines all you need to do to modify the above for those aeroplanes is select approach flap comfortably before the IAF...and about 120Kt works for an 'approach flap set' manouvering speed in all the bigger, faster piston twins and 130 is a good ball park for the Turbines. Then fly the rest of it as for the seminole.
In fact I would go as far as to gaurantee you that the above methodology will work for every aeroplane you ever fly no matter how big...all that will change is the speed...in the 767 I fly now it is Flaps 5/Vref 30+40kts (around 175kts).
If it is how you will be expected to fly larger aircraft why not start now?
Of course in bigger two crew aeroplanes you will land with all the flap but there is no need in little aeroplanes.
EDIT: Here is the link to the DME arc thread.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...light=DME+arcs
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 14th Dec 2006 at 06:18.
Would it also be possible to obtain power settings and configurations for flying an ILS and as to where I should select flap for the initial intercept of the LLZ and the config down the glide slope.
PPRUNE is a great resource but you are paying (I assume) to learn this stuff from a M/E IFR instructor so what do they tell you to do? Didn't you get a brief on power settings and configurations? If not change instructors for goodness sake.
Chimbu has some good points but I think he maybe overestimating the ability of some of the pilots on the board (including me 
).
Gear down as you intercept the G/S. That way you won’t forget! Last thing you need to worry about as you pop out the bottom of the crap is if your gear is down or not. I would suggest you use the flap recommended in the ops manual, or if you don’t have one the aircraft operating manual, no flap onto a wet runway (if your doing an ILS it’s probably wet) is a good way to come unstuck, even if it is a long runway.
If you are flying into a busy airport and feel you need to adjust everything just because there is a 737 following you down then think again, remember flying an ILS is a lot easier when you have 2 crew and an autopilot with a working appch mode.
As for checklists....how about the one in the aircraft? Keep current on a sim, even if it is only Flight Sim 2000, its still better then nothing.
).Gear down as you intercept the G/S. That way you won’t forget! Last thing you need to worry about as you pop out the bottom of the crap is if your gear is down or not. I would suggest you use the flap recommended in the ops manual, or if you don’t have one the aircraft operating manual, no flap onto a wet runway (if your doing an ILS it’s probably wet) is a good way to come unstuck, even if it is a long runway.
If you are flying into a busy airport and feel you need to adjust everything just because there is a 737 following you down then think again, remember flying an ILS is a lot easier when you have 2 crew and an autopilot with a working appch mode.
As for checklists....how about the one in the aircraft? Keep current on a sim, even if it is only Flight Sim 2000, its still better then nothing.
Grandpa Aerotart
Gear down at GS intercept is as good as anywhere...I did say 1500 agl was a subjective suggestion...a wet grooved runway will be a non event in a seminole/duchess class of aeroplane...and 99 times out of 100 you will be visual in plenty of time to add flaps if the mood takes.
The other consideration is landing on a runway with an ILS will most likely involve a long distance to taxi to the first exit...just how many aeroplanes behind you do you want to send around?
Forget the gear?
Can't you do a PUF check on an ILS?
The other consideration is landing on a runway with an ILS will most likely involve a long distance to taxi to the first exit...just how many aeroplanes behind you do you want to send around?
Forget the gear?
Can't you do a PUF check on an ILS?
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gear down intercepting the g/s...
flap when visual if coming out of the IMC stuff... works for me in the piston twins...
dont really want to do a missed approach with everything hanging out.. not many of the piston twins want to climb on one engine with gear and flap out, especially at max weight- minimise the workload for yourself in the event you lose a noisemaker when pusing the throttles up to go around.
power settings, next time your doing an ILS have a play to find what gives you about 120kts in whatever configuration your in. never flown the pa44, but with just the gear down you would probably be looking at about 18-20" with both engines running.
flap when visual if coming out of the IMC stuff... works for me in the piston twins...
dont really want to do a missed approach with everything hanging out.. not many of the piston twins want to climb on one engine with gear and flap out, especially at max weight- minimise the workload for yourself in the event you lose a noisemaker when pusing the throttles up to go around.
power settings, next time your doing an ILS have a play to find what gives you about 120kts in whatever configuration your in. never flown the pa44, but with just the gear down you would probably be looking at about 18-20" with both engines running.
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I've personally found that I can't get back to my gear speed easily and in the time frame I need unless I take flap first.
Flying the PA31 you dont want to go much below 25" with a full load and at Sydney I find they fang you around, drop you down and treat you like you have speed brakes. A short level segment prior to the ILS is all the time I have usually to get some flap and get within range to take gear on glideslope. It's not uncommon to come hurdling out of a descent there at 180kias with the localizer alive and having to get back to the 128kias gear speed quickly. Couldn't do it without flap first.
Flying the PA31 you dont want to go much below 25" with a full load and at Sydney I find they fang you around, drop you down and treat you like you have speed brakes. A short level segment prior to the ILS is all the time I have usually to get some flap and get within range to take gear on glideslope. It's not uncommon to come hurdling out of a descent there at 180kias with the localizer alive and having to get back to the 128kias gear speed quickly. Couldn't do it without flap first.
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I just did a flight in a Seminole on an IFR Flight Plan after 2 months of doing basic instruction. I found myself way behind the aircraft and even forgot to tune the fwd aid because I was tracking on the VOR behind me. I was wondering if there are any IFR instructors or charter pilots who could give me some sort of checklist or acronym that would assist me and prevent me from making similar errors. Would it also be possible to obtain power settings and configurations for flying an ILS and as to where I should select flap for the initial intercept of the LLZ and the config down the glide slope. Any information would be appreciated.
If IFR is not your regular gig then its easy to get out of the swing of things - which is why the "Fork-tailed Dr Killer" and I pretty much always fly on an IFR plan, even when its 8/8 blue (Heh! I'm not paying for it).
Any reputable school doing IR training in the Semenhole should be able to give you the nominal power settings for rattling down the ILS etc.
In the BE35 (had to chat the guy in the tower today for calling it a Debonair!), I generally fly 2300/23-21" (depending on level), descend on 20", level off at that to let it slow down - drop 10 flap intercepting the LLZ and then drop the gear when the GS is one dot above centred. With the gear out and 10 flap I need 2300/22" to hold the GS at 120 kts.
If the ceiling is low I don't bother with any more flap. I don't know anywhere with an ILS where you can't comfortably land a light twin with only 10 degree flap. If I am visual at a comfortable height I hang out all the flap, land on the piano keys and turn off at the first taxiway - cause I can, and 737s can't!
R
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Acronym
novicef:
Many pilots here, who are far more experienced than I, have already given excellent advice to you with respect to power settings and approach configurations - so I don't have any more to add in that respect. However, like you, I also have struggled with time/task management whilst flying IFR (a problem common to those of us who aren't able to fly IFR as regularly as we would like).
There are many acronyms around (http://www.flightinfo.com/rulesofthumb.asp) so it is simply a matter to find which one you are most comfortable with.
Personally, I use "NAPALM" (which I developed myself) for my pre-approach check list, and I find this works quite well for me as its an acronym that I can easily remember and it also follows the typical flight sequence.
N = navaids (tuned, identified and tested)
A = aerodrome (atis, circuit procedures, obstacles and limitations)
P = plan approach (IAL, circuit entry and missed approach)
A = avionics set and checked (headings, bugs and flags)
L = lights selected (runway lights and aircraft landing lights)
M = monitors on (ILS marker beacons or ADF ident)
Pre-landing checks are then initiated at an appropriate time in the instrument approach or when in the circuit.
Hope this helps.
.....pilots who could give me some sort of checklist or acronym that would assist me and prevent me from making similar errors.
There are many acronyms around (http://www.flightinfo.com/rulesofthumb.asp) so it is simply a matter to find which one you are most comfortable with.
Personally, I use "NAPALM" (which I developed myself) for my pre-approach check list, and I find this works quite well for me as its an acronym that I can easily remember and it also follows the typical flight sequence.
N = navaids (tuned, identified and tested)
A = aerodrome (atis, circuit procedures, obstacles and limitations)
P = plan approach (IAL, circuit entry and missed approach)
A = avionics set and checked (headings, bugs and flags)
L = lights selected (runway lights and aircraft landing lights)
M = monitors on (ILS marker beacons or ADF ident)
Pre-landing checks are then initiated at an appropriate time in the instrument approach or when in the circuit.
Hope this helps.
