Radar Evasion
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ATC radar coverage....
The other day i watched a movie ...Miami Vibe i think...and in it there was a cene where a light twin. used a nother plane with the same or aproximatly same speed...(plane B was a Kingair..not shure what the other was) to avoid Ground radar from air traffic controlers by flying up close slightly below and behind Plane B,(in i asume pilot Bs Blind spot)...so my question is basicaly...Is this posible?? (not the formnation flying but radar evasion??)
and also if so..have there ever bean any reported cases or atempts of this kind made??
and maby some more experinced bloke out there can tell me what type plane A was, and if i even named the right movie
!!!
thanks
Delta
and also if so..have there ever bean any reported cases or atempts of this kind made??
and maby some more experinced bloke out there can tell me what type plane A was, and if i even named the right movie
!!!thanks
Delta
Last edited by Delta; 7th Dec 2006 at 05:13.
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Had always thought that holding a tight formation conceals the number of aircraft in the flight...
Its not unknown for military aircraft to formate similarly on an airliner and sneak across borders undetected. You can actually get a RADALT return from someone hiding underneath you.
Its not unknown for military aircraft to formate similarly on an airliner and sneak across borders undetected. You can actually get a RADALT return from someone hiding underneath you.
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Entebbe
Its not unknown for military aircraft to formate similarly on an airliner and sneak across borders undetected
However, today many countries only employ SSR for enroute surveillance, so there would be no need to hide under another aircraft. If you wish to remain undetected, just do as Rat**** says - switch your transponder off!
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I reckon ATC would miss you under the King Air but I'll put money on the chances of you getting spotted by a range of mil spec radars. 25 years ago you might have gone unnoticed, but these days you'll be painted with an ISAR then begin to wonder what that spec of smoke coming toward you is.
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amendmet of original cenario
sorry i asume you all knew what i ment ..but just in case...so that the markers on the ATC screens became one moving arrow instead of two...
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Saw a doco on the discovery channel once about drug runners scud running 210 sized equipment over the Southern USA border. I think the US coast guard or customs or whatever sends citations out and I wouldn’t have believed this until i saw it on film, they intercept from behind then they fly in the blind spot of the 210s which is, in its 6 o'clock just below. no more that say 10 feet away . In a citation!
Then once in range, armed black hawks take up the same position prior to whatever action they take.
If any ppruners has seen it, they’ll vouch that it is damn awesome stuff.
Don’t know if it avoids radar though. In the doco however it did say that the drug runners flew low and used the highways as cover clutter.
Then once in range, armed black hawks take up the same position prior to whatever action they take.
If any ppruners has seen it, they’ll vouch that it is damn awesome stuff.
Don’t know if it avoids radar though. In the doco however it did say that the drug runners flew low and used the highways as cover clutter.
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thanks on the info
...so in summing up...normal ATC radar whould not detect 2 ac in tight formation??...it would apear on the screens as one....??/ but milatary equipmet whould have it sused??? including AC numbers?? could someone veryfie the above ???
thanks heaps
Delta
...so in summing up...normal ATC radar whould not detect 2 ac in tight formation??...it would apear on the screens as one....??/ but milatary equipmet whould have it sused??? including AC numbers?? could someone veryfie the above ???
thanks heaps
Delta
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Have had some air traffic controllers get a bit excited when we use to do formation parachute ops. They would constantly complain when we got really close 
cause they would suddenly "loose" an aircraft, usually the chase.
cause they would suddenly "loose" an aircraft, usually the chase.
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Delta, in response I would say that unless ATC have ISAR, which I am fairly certain they don't and you are in a tight formation behind and below another larger aircraft there will only be one arrow on the ATC screen.
The whole thing depends on a number of factors like aircraft size, what it's made out of, if ATC are looking at a tweaked image, which they are, the tweak settings, and if the computer isn't told to spot the double which it isn't, if you have your transponder off, WX, how close you get, if you drift out, posn of radar, ETC, ETC.
It is a movies deal which I've seen and been read about a few times and if you really wanted to get serious there are too many ways to hide from ATC radar, but there are some people you can't hide from.
The whole thing depends on a number of factors like aircraft size, what it's made out of, if ATC are looking at a tweaked image, which they are, the tweak settings, and if the computer isn't told to spot the double which it isn't, if you have your transponder off, WX, how close you get, if you drift out, posn of radar, ETC, ETC.
It is a movies deal which I've seen and been read about a few times and if you really wanted to get serious there are too many ways to hide from ATC radar, but there are some people you can't hide from.
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Some radar is a joke!
Just a rumour...
Because of the upgrade of NZ's radar to accept Mode S, some models of transponder are not compatable with the new system. It all has to do with the squark code selected.
The higher the number on the squark code, the greater the chance of an "irregularity" for the radar controller. For instance, a code starting in 5 or 6 may cause the controller to "see" two aircraft descending in the same spot - with the usual "oh no, they're going to crash into each other". If you dialed up an emergency code, they would probably see a whole squadron of aircraft plummeting into the ground at 10,000 fpm down.
From all reports, this is a temporary problem that will be solved, but until then, I'm sure the boys with square eyes will have some exciting moments.
Maybe someone from NZ Airways can explain...
ECT?
Because of the upgrade of NZ's radar to accept Mode S, some models of transponder are not compatable with the new system. It all has to do with the squark code selected.
The higher the number on the squark code, the greater the chance of an "irregularity" for the radar controller. For instance, a code starting in 5 or 6 may cause the controller to "see" two aircraft descending in the same spot - with the usual "oh no, they're going to crash into each other". If you dialed up an emergency code, they would probably see a whole squadron of aircraft plummeting into the ground at 10,000 fpm down.
From all reports, this is a temporary problem that will be solved, but until then, I'm sure the boys with square eyes will have some exciting moments.
Maybe someone from NZ Airways can explain...
ECT?
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Trying hiding in a flock of balloons ?
This off today's YSBK NOTAM ...
BALLOON RELEASE
TWO RELEASES OF 70 SMALL PARTY BALLOONS WI 3NM RAD
OF AD
FROM 11 262320 TO 11 262335
This off today's YSBK NOTAM ...
BALLOON RELEASE
TWO RELEASES OF 70 SMALL PARTY BALLOONS WI 3NM RAD
OF AD
FROM 11 262320 TO 11 262335
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Remember some of the Air to Air search radar in the navy/airforce is brand spanking new with some hell whizbang software behind it. L band, X band and a heap of other bands that make finding you pretty bloody easy and with a profile paint you'll see however many want to hide behind, above and around any aircarft, cept that sneaky black thing.