Cessna 337
the front engine that has the sole hydraulic pump
The C337 I flew must have been unique. The gear still went up or down, regardless of which engine was failed!
As HH mentioned, if you cycled the gear with an engine out, flying at engine-out speed, you will lose approx. 200 feet! .. because of the gear door drag mainly.
Later models had an electrically driven hydraulic power pack and no engine mounted hydraulic pump hence alleviating the problem of having to windmill the front engine (if failed) until the extension or retraction cycle was complete.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bai, mi go long hap na kisim sampla samting.
Posts: 2,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It was only the older models that had the engine driven hydrolic pump. It was later changed to the electric model. POH for your specific aircraft will tell you whats what. (heres a hint. If all the knobs and handles are huge and white, the pump is a engine driven type)
Thos gear doors and sidways wheels are worth ten knots when selected. if teh gear is down, leave it there until you can afford the loss of performance.
keep a close eye on the temps on the back engine, as they regularly run far hotter rhan the front one.
As TQ said, lead your take off with the rear engine, then the front. a partial loss of power is very difficult to detect until you can afford to pull a throttle to check which engine your losing.
TQ, hehehe, I remember the castor wheel comment.
also remember the guy that was instructing had to endure another gear retraction in a Mooney shortly afterwards.
Thos gear doors and sidways wheels are worth ten knots when selected. if teh gear is down, leave it there until you can afford the loss of performance.
keep a close eye on the temps on the back engine, as they regularly run far hotter rhan the front one.
As TQ said, lead your take off with the rear engine, then the front. a partial loss of power is very difficult to detect until you can afford to pull a throttle to check which engine your losing.
TQ, hehehe, I remember the castor wheel comment.
also remember the guy that was instructing had to endure another gear retraction in a Mooney shortly afterwards.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere around 27degrees
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cheers TQ, I thought it was the front, but it's been a while and I only ever flew them with dual pumps or the elctro-hydraulic system.
Rat****.........I don't believe the wheels factor into it much. I flew one with the gear doors removed, which had gear-shaped holes in the fairings fitted over the wheel wells......just as C172RG's & C182RG's have. It had neglible drag to offer during the gear cycle, and as such we retracted the gear immediately when flying this one....assuming you were continuing of course.
Another point of interest Troopie.......There are quite a few STOL kit options and these can affect not only the T.O. & Landing performance, but very much so the cruise perfomance of the beast.
One last bit of advice.........get a good headset!!
Rat****.........I don't believe the wheels factor into it much. I flew one with the gear doors removed, which had gear-shaped holes in the fairings fitted over the wheel wells......just as C172RG's & C182RG's have. It had neglible drag to offer during the gear cycle, and as such we retracted the gear immediately when flying this one....assuming you were continuing of course.
Another point of interest Troopie.......There are quite a few STOL kit options and these can affect not only the T.O. & Landing performance, but very much so the cruise perfomance of the beast.
One last bit of advice.........get a good headset!!
Many early 337's in Australia had the optional extra hydraulic pump fitted. The Robertson STOL can get off the ground and climb out at 50kts but it has a long way to go to blue line. Similarly, it will approach at the same speed but needs a large amount of throttle to check the descent. Back engine runs a lot hotter than the front, needs the front engine running on the ground to keep the back engine cool but be careful with the power on the front engine or you will throw stones into the back propellor. It has a few idiosyncracies, but once you understand them you will hate it just the same.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: where eva the plane is broken down
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re the gear doors....it's the same system as the c210 but....the 210 (still with) doors open paralell to the airflow,where due to the narrowing of the 337's rear fuse the doors open on a angle acting like speed brakes..!.Nothing to lose 10 kts during retraction.Make sure you have that to spare....
PI
PI
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Central Aust
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Loads of replies, thanks!
Plenty of food for thought...
Pass-a-frozo - I am guessing that method of identifying which engine has failed would only work if the front engine has "seized". Persoanlly, if the prop is windmilling, my eyes can't discern on that alone if the donk has packed up.
Plenty of food for thought...
Pass-a-frozo - I am guessing that method of identifying which engine has failed would only work if the front engine has "seized". Persoanlly, if the prop is windmilling, my eyes can't discern on that alone if the donk has packed up.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bai, mi go long hap na kisim sampla samting.
Posts: 2,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So.......you ever see an engine on its way to failing?. I have seen a couple now and let me assure you the prop turns for quite some time while it has some air moving over it. certainly long enough, that if your trying to identify it as the failed engine by waiting for it to stop, you might be in a little grief. I'm pretty certain you would want to positively identify the right engine before you got into feathering it.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,569
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
..Alby Mangels :-)
...some great insight into push me pull me C336/7 here by the readers..........I can add something else that's not really of an operational concern just a 'save face' concern with regards to the beast.
Having flown only conventional twins for many years when I did get the chance to add the mixmaster to my list of credits some years ago I found a great tendancy to move the throttles in a asymmetric fashion (at low speeds of course) in order to assist in turning the A/C in confined spaces (as per twins with engines on the wings!) ........obviously ( not so at the time being blonde !) doing this achieves zip !..........moving the right throttle for Eg only makes the A/C only continue on in a straight line and faster !!!..........oh well we all learn out there on the job !:-)
All the suggestions here are useful such as leaving the gear alone if one has an engine failure after T/O unless it's been gear door modded, (C336 obviously doesn't apply here). Good idea to 'lead' the rear engine first during the start of a T/Off role to chk for any abnormalities & be very aware that the IO360 Continentals where known for rear exhaust problems with the units coming loose & starting an in house fire!
Anyone remember that charactor Alby Mangels (not sure on the spelling of his name), the adventurer who found a C337 in some old chook shed in NZ I think, dusted it off & flew it out only to say that he was told that he could not fly it with the gear up, had to stay down for safety reasons being so long stored.......well the TV showed an inflight piccy of same cleaned up !!!.....must have gotten approval whilst inlfight !, must heva been a wayward duck flying by that just happened to have a video camera tucked uner his left wing !:
......& to top it all off he was renowned for 'picking' up hitch-hikers during his adventures so he simply landed the plane beside a rd after seeing a female hitch-hiker (must have had great eye sight !) & picked her up, of course it was all unintentional !........yeah right !!...........I think he owed a lot of people a lot of maney way back then & has long since been put away.....probably with that same plane in that same chook shed !:-)
All in all a rather nice plane to fly providing you don't want to carry to much & are happy to drive the crap out of the people on the ground within a zillion miles of yr plane 'cause God they are so noisy!:-)
Capy wally........
Having flown only conventional twins for many years when I did get the chance to add the mixmaster to my list of credits some years ago I found a great tendancy to move the throttles in a asymmetric fashion (at low speeds of course) in order to assist in turning the A/C in confined spaces (as per twins with engines on the wings!) ........obviously ( not so at the time being blonde !) doing this achieves zip !..........moving the right throttle for Eg only makes the A/C only continue on in a straight line and faster !!!..........oh well we all learn out there on the job !:-)
All the suggestions here are useful such as leaving the gear alone if one has an engine failure after T/O unless it's been gear door modded, (C336 obviously doesn't apply here). Good idea to 'lead' the rear engine first during the start of a T/Off role to chk for any abnormalities & be very aware that the IO360 Continentals where known for rear exhaust problems with the units coming loose & starting an in house fire!
Anyone remember that charactor Alby Mangels (not sure on the spelling of his name), the adventurer who found a C337 in some old chook shed in NZ I think, dusted it off & flew it out only to say that he was told that he could not fly it with the gear up, had to stay down for safety reasons being so long stored.......well the TV showed an inflight piccy of same cleaned up !!!.....must have gotten approval whilst inlfight !, must heva been a wayward duck flying by that just happened to have a video camera tucked uner his left wing !:
......& to top it all off he was renowned for 'picking' up hitch-hikers during his adventures so he simply landed the plane beside a rd after seeing a female hitch-hiker (must have had great eye sight !) & picked her up, of course it was all unintentional !........yeah right !!...........I think he owed a lot of people a lot of maney way back then & has long since been put away.....probably with that same plane in that same chook shed !:-)All in all a rather nice plane to fly providing you don't want to carry to much & are happy to drive the crap out of the people on the ground within a zillion miles of yr plane 'cause God they are so noisy!:-)
Capy wally........
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bai, mi go long hap na kisim sampla samting.
Posts: 2,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
funny enough, after all the types and models I have flown, the only time I have had a blade flop around in the hub, it was the rear prop on a 337. flopped about to the extent that I refused to fly it..........others did and eventually it got fixed but it was the only one I have seen loose in the hub.
