Cirrus SR20 crashes into New York Apartment Building
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Cirrus SR20 crashes into New York Apartment Building
No doubt you will have all see the news items on this.
I am now questioning why the Cirrus parachute (CAPS) wasn't deployed. Seems everyone is pulling the handle for fun, yet in a genuine requirement this guy doesn't... Makes me sus as to whether or not it really was an accident... it will be interesting to see what happens.
I am now questioning why the Cirrus parachute (CAPS) wasn't deployed. Seems everyone is pulling the handle for fun, yet in a genuine requirement this guy doesn't... Makes me sus as to whether or not it really was an accident... it will be interesting to see what happens.
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Kalium Chloride posted this in another forum.
For those debating the route the aircraft took, this link http://www4.passur.com/jfk.htmlappears to show that between 13:01 and 13:07, a GA aircraft comes in from the right of the picture, at a height of 1,400ft, then turns left and rapidly descends, gets to about 300ft and vanishes.
(To view, set clock to about 13:00, range 20 miles, then press 'Start' - then click on the aircraft to generate an ID and altitude). It comes passes the red "NEW" of "NEW YORK"
For those debating the route the aircraft took, this link http://www4.passur.com/jfk.htmlappears to show that between 13:01 and 13:07, a GA aircraft comes in from the right of the picture, at a height of 1,400ft, then turns left and rapidly descends, gets to about 300ft and vanishes.
(To view, set clock to about 13:00, range 20 miles, then press 'Start' - then click on the aircraft to generate an ID and altitude). It comes passes the red "NEW" of "NEW YORK"
Heraldsun. com .au are reporting Cirrus SR20, complete with picture. A quick search of the register confirms this. Of course *every* aircraft that crashes these days is a Cessna of some sorts because that's what everyone knows.
Conflicting reports at the moment. One says he was a student pilot with an instructor and had engine problems; others say he had a licence for a year and owned the aircraft for 7 months.
Either way it sounds like something bad went wrong and things ended badly. Makes you think twice about what to do when the donk dies over a built up area. You'd be thinking if you had the choice that you might go for a road, however if you've been to New York you'd know there are few places to land other than the water and central park.
Conflicting reports at the moment. One says he was a student pilot with an instructor and had engine problems; others say he had a licence for a year and owned the aircraft for 7 months.
Either way it sounds like something bad went wrong and things ended badly. Makes you think twice about what to do when the donk dies over a built up area. You'd be thinking if you had the choice that you might go for a road, however if you've been to New York you'd know there are few places to land other than the water and central park.
Makes you wonder if it was. It wouldn't be the first time, given what we saw here a couple of weeks back.
If there was an instructor on-board it is highly unlikely, however the stories that say there was one on board could have gotten confused along the way as news stories often do.
If he was on his own there will no doubt be stories come about about how he had a link to someone in the building or a building nearby and how his season was going bad or some made up crap.
If there was an instructor on-board it is highly unlikely, however the stories that say there was one on board could have gotten confused along the way as news stories often do.
If he was on his own there will no doubt be stories come about about how he had a link to someone in the building or a building nearby and how his season was going bad or some made up crap.
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i see that there was an instrucor in the plane. news is saying that the aircraft was seen in a 'tight turn'. surely (and no i wasn't there) the last thing you want to be doing with engine problems/in a glide is a tight turn? now i know new york doesn't have a lot of paddocks to do a flwop into, but surely there are options other than flying into the side of a building - the belaire condo is less than 200m from the water, and 7 blocks from central park
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It does make you wonder. One of the only aircraft types in the world with a certified parachute system for moments like these and it wasn't used or didn't go off for them.
Wonder if they were busy trying to make it work or something and weren't looking below. Short of a black box we will probably never know.
I wonder if Cirrus are over their engine problems yet. Literally all of the 20's imported into OZ have had an engine rebuild or replacement (no joke). Seems Cirrus are happier to pay for the repairs than to modify the bracket that's causing the problems. Cirrus owners need to carefully check for the engine throwing metal. I've seen problems as low as 500 hours.
Wonder if they were busy trying to make it work or something and weren't looking below. Short of a black box we will probably never know.
I wonder if Cirrus are over their engine problems yet. Literally all of the 20's imported into OZ have had an engine rebuild or replacement (no joke). Seems Cirrus are happier to pay for the repairs than to modify the bracket that's causing the problems. Cirrus owners need to carefully check for the engine throwing metal. I've seen problems as low as 500 hours.
To 'Ovation'.....Thanks for that link.....
Image 'disappears' at time 13:08.13 seconds.
Just an observation.....I had a look at what MIGHT have been available for a possible forced landing on 'Google Earth'.
What I did find at E.15TH Street is a double field Baseball facility - quite close to where the image seemed to disappear - and the man was Pitcher for NY Yankees??
Would he have been 'showing' the passenger where he worked??
The last altitude shown was in the order of 300ft - down from 1,400ft over the river......
However, IF there was an engine failure, there ain't that much to go for except for the freeway or the water.
Either way, 'tis a sad event.
Condolences to all concerned.
Image 'disappears' at time 13:08.13 seconds.
Just an observation.....I had a look at what MIGHT have been available for a possible forced landing on 'Google Earth'.
What I did find at E.15TH Street is a double field Baseball facility - quite close to where the image seemed to disappear - and the man was Pitcher for NY Yankees??
Would he have been 'showing' the passenger where he worked??
The last altitude shown was in the order of 300ft - down from 1,400ft over the river......
However, IF there was an engine failure, there ain't that much to go for except for the freeway or the water.
Either way, 'tis a sad event.
Condolences to all concerned.
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VH-XXX
I think the major question here is why it has hit the building, remember the Cirrus needs a clean 1000ft agl to deploy to have any chance of sucess. I imagine that something very untoward has happened to put them anywhere near populated area like that?
also, what are the engine problems that you are refering to with regards to the bracket?
ps i dont work for Cirrus, im just curious as a Cirrus driver
cheers
FL440
I think the major question here is why it has hit the building, remember the Cirrus needs a clean 1000ft agl to deploy to have any chance of sucess. I imagine that something very untoward has happened to put them anywhere near populated area like that?
also, what are the engine problems that you are refering to with regards to the bracket?
ps i dont work for Cirrus, im just curious as a Cirrus driver
cheers
FL440
Last edited by FL440; 12th Oct 2006 at 09:21. Reason: word error :)
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Not Suicide
I'm over here in Wichita and caught the news at DFW in transit. Obviously its on all the major news here, nonstop, and the pilot was one Corey Lidle, a New York Yankees pitcher and his instructor. As I type this, the TV in the background is blaring and some NTSB dude is speculating on too much air in the tanks. They have come to this conclusion due to the nature of the fire and the fact that there was no indication of a fire fueled by fuel.
Heaps of speculation, lotsa conflicting versions, the budding DSs coming out of the woodwork and wanting GA scrapped worldwide, you know, the usual after accident crap.
Heaps of speculation, lotsa conflicting versions, the budding DSs coming out of the woodwork and wanting GA scrapped worldwide, you know, the usual after accident crap.
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the story in this mornings herald, states that the chute was fired, but it failed to deploy. and the aircraft had engine trouble and impacted the building while trying to turn and land at a suitable area. though comments from the owner and pilot taken before the crash are a little weird, "it has a parachute in case the engine fails" 
wonder why the chute didnt deploy, or he pulled it just moments from impact and it didntr have time to deploy? and would pulling a BRS chute be a good idea over a heavlily built up area?
wonder why the chute didnt deploy, or he pulled it just moments from impact and it didntr have time to deploy? and would pulling a BRS chute be a good idea over a heavlily built up area?
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I have a *few* Cirrus hours. I would definitely pull the handle over a built up area if there was nowhere to land as there are few other options. I'd prefer downwards travel with no forward momentum over controlled flight any time. Once the handle is armed (with the pin removed) it's only a matter of a seond or perhaps two to pull the chute. There has been a case where the user pulled the handle too hard successively and it didn't fire, but rather it fired correctly with a gentle but firm application of force in a downwards motion.
By golly imagine the headlines for Cirrus Design Corporation if they had survived and the chute had deployed successfully and it crashed onto a New York building. It would be all over the world that an aircraft with emergency parachute saved the life of NY Yankees star. Next you'd be hearing cries for them to be fitted to airliners and all other aircraft for safety of the travelling public.
As for the problem with the bracket - the secondary alterntor bracket is a Cirrus add-on because of the extra electrics. Seems the bracket is poorly designed and causes crank-case cracking after time with metal in the engin a sure thing, so close inspection is required. Cirrus DC have been spending *huge* dollars in warranty work in replacing the engines (blocks) whilst many very unhappy customers get unhappier. I am unsure if the bracket has been updated. A friend visited the service agent in QLD last year only to see a number (4 or 5) Cirrus's without engines in the yard awaiting engines. I know of 2 in Vic that have suffered the same problems, one of which was a week or 2 out of warranty but I believe was covered. When it went in for repair the mechanic wrote down the engine serial number incorrectly; he got a call from Cirrus US and amazingly they said "pal, the serial number you gave us has already had the modification performed, what's going on?" What are the chances of that!! Makes me how many are affected (SR20's).
By golly imagine the headlines for Cirrus Design Corporation if they had survived and the chute had deployed successfully and it crashed onto a New York building. It would be all over the world that an aircraft with emergency parachute saved the life of NY Yankees star. Next you'd be hearing cries for them to be fitted to airliners and all other aircraft for safety of the travelling public.
As for the problem with the bracket - the secondary alterntor bracket is a Cirrus add-on because of the extra electrics. Seems the bracket is poorly designed and causes crank-case cracking after time with metal in the engin a sure thing, so close inspection is required. Cirrus DC have been spending *huge* dollars in warranty work in replacing the engines (blocks) whilst many very unhappy customers get unhappier. I am unsure if the bracket has been updated. A friend visited the service agent in QLD last year only to see a number (4 or 5) Cirrus's without engines in the yard awaiting engines. I know of 2 in Vic that have suffered the same problems, one of which was a week or 2 out of warranty but I believe was covered. When it went in for repair the mechanic wrote down the engine serial number incorrectly; he got a call from Cirrus US and amazingly they said "pal, the serial number you gave us has already had the modification performed, what's going on?" What are the chances of that!! Makes me how many are affected (SR20's).
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I'm over here in Wichita and caught the news at DFW in transit. Obviously its on all the major news here, nonstop, and the pilot was one Corey Lidle, a New York Yankees pitcher and his instructor. As I type this, the TV in the background is blaring and some NTSB dude is speculating on too much air in the tanks. They have come to this conclusion due to the nature of the fire and the fact that there was no indication of a fire fueled by fuel.
Then I wonder what caused the fireball on impact which was captured on tape. I think the "some NTSB dude" is full of it.
