Air Trafficking down under?
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Air Trafficking down under?
Hey Guys
Any ATCOs down under who've also been ATCOs in the UK about? I'm looking for a comparison of the whole standard-of-living thing, not just straight salaries. I've got two small children, the eldest of which (6yrs) has some learning difficulties & we're considering making the big leap. We were out for 3 weeks fairly recently & had a thoroughly good time staying with friends on the west coast, although obviously it's not the same as living there.
Note: I am NOT asking about permanent residency etc for joining ASA!
I would be interested however in your experiences of working for them, and whether you can request a particular base (in my case, the ideal would be BNE).
Cheers!
ap
Any ATCOs down under who've also been ATCOs in the UK about? I'm looking for a comparison of the whole standard-of-living thing, not just straight salaries. I've got two small children, the eldest of which (6yrs) has some learning difficulties & we're considering making the big leap. We were out for 3 weeks fairly recently & had a thoroughly good time staying with friends on the west coast, although obviously it's not the same as living there.
Note: I am NOT asking about permanent residency etc for joining ASA!
I would be interested however in your experiences of working for them, and whether you can request a particular base (in my case, the ideal would be BNE).
Cheers!
ap
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www.civilair.asn.au
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Senior management don't seem to realise it - but they are in deep $hit on controller numbers. Especially with the latest major projects cooking at the moment.
Pay is falling behind international standards so a minor exodus to the sandpit states pending.
Good luck.
Go to Forum
Senior management don't seem to realise it - but they are in deep $hit on controller numbers. Especially with the latest major projects cooking at the moment.
Pay is falling behind international standards so a minor exodus to the sandpit states pending.
Good luck.
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Hey ****su
Yeah, I had that one but hada had some trouble logging in, mainly cos I'd lost my password. Now I've been back & actually read the instructions & found it again!
Are you out there or in the big sandpit?
ap
Yeah, I had that one but hada had some trouble logging in, mainly cos I'd lost my password. Now I've been back & actually read the instructions & found it again!
Are you out there or in the big sandpit?
ap
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"...your experiences of working for them..."
Generally benign experience in my time with the department of many names, because all the corporate butchery has been directed at other areas, resulting in the termination of many careers and the odd suicide. Now they have killed off or left bleeding everything else it seems our corporate leader has ATC in his sights. Results? Stay tuned for details. Latest indications of the next shuffle of the deck chairs are they are applying their management methods (change the names of everything and make everyone responsible for somebody different every two years) is being applied to how ATC operates
"...and whether you can request a particular base (in my case, the ideal would be BNE)..."
There are only two (unless you opt for towers) so your odds are good. There are no guarantees though. If you get stuck in the wrong one there are opportunities to move later sometimes. BN weather will unfortunately kill a Pom fresh off the boat in short order, maybe you should consider ML?
Generally benign experience in my time with the department of many names, because all the corporate butchery has been directed at other areas, resulting in the termination of many careers and the odd suicide. Now they have killed off or left bleeding everything else it seems our corporate leader has ATC in his sights. Results? Stay tuned for details. Latest indications of the next shuffle of the deck chairs are they are applying their management methods (change the names of everything and make everyone responsible for somebody different every two years) is being applied to how ATC operates
"...and whether you can request a particular base (in my case, the ideal would be BNE)..."
There are only two (unless you opt for towers) so your odds are good. There are no guarantees though. If you get stuck in the wrong one there are opportunities to move later sometimes. BN weather will unfortunately kill a Pom fresh off the boat in short order, maybe you should consider ML?
Last edited by jumpuFOKKERjump; 11th Oct 2006 at 03:48.
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Actually Brisbane Weather is pretty benign.
Melbourne on the other hand is schizo-climate.
It would appear from overtime being worked we are aboout 10% short on controllers. Coincidentally this is the same number that our bonus-driven managers wish to decrease the current workforce by. So we would be around 20% short if the course of insanity continues.
Should be entertaining watching how this pans out. Rumour is that overtime costs currently running at $6M a year just for ATC.
If VR is offered there will probably be close to 25% of incumbents who would seriously consider - depending on how generous the offer is.
Traffic growth is the highest it has been in a long time - some ports growing 30% in the last 12 months.
If you are thinking it doesn't all add up - welcome to the club.
Melbourne on the other hand is schizo-climate.
It would appear from overtime being worked we are aboout 10% short on controllers. Coincidentally this is the same number that our bonus-driven managers wish to decrease the current workforce by. So we would be around 20% short if the course of insanity continues.
Should be entertaining watching how this pans out. Rumour is that overtime costs currently running at $6M a year just for ATC.
If VR is offered there will probably be close to 25% of incumbents who would seriously consider - depending on how generous the offer is.
Traffic growth is the highest it has been in a long time - some ports growing 30% in the last 12 months.
If you are thinking it doesn't all add up - welcome to the club.
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Don't go to Brizzy, mate. I went there last year and all it did was rain. Had strange fungal growths appear in moist orifices. But Melbourne - well it it hasn't rained in yonks.
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Knackers wot bollocks mate 
Brisbane is as dry a the proverbial dead dingos donga.
Melbourne on the other hand - no webbed feet - no passport down south
Just joking
Each has its own idiots and good bits.
****su is right though - this AsA management couldnt find their collective arses in the dark.
Brisbane is as dry a the proverbial dead dingos donga.
Melbourne on the other hand - no webbed feet - no passport down south
Just joking
Each has its own idiots and good bits.
****su is right though - this AsA management couldnt find their collective arses in the dark.
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Swings & roundabouts, eh?
Thing is, one of my best mates flies for VB out of Briz & Mrs Persuader has mates in Bundy.We've got friends in Syd too.
Not that getting Mel would necessarily upset us - just gotta figure out what's best for all the family.
Any of you worked ATC in the UK?
ap
Thing is, one of my best mates flies for VB out of Briz & Mrs Persuader has mates in Bundy.We've got friends in Syd too.
Not that getting Mel would necessarily upset us - just gotta figure out what's best for all the family.
Any of you worked ATC in the UK?
ap
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mini exodus to the sandpit
****su,
You are kidding right? Since when? I don't know of a single ATC from Melbourne that would go there. Besides the fact that no ATC would have the balls to go, they are too concerned with working a coupe of extra weeks work to get an extra weeks rec leave.
Race to the bottom, keep going boys and girls. ATC, the new Jetstar, you are the next targets.
As an ex tradie, I see jobs for my trade going at 120 gorillas a year, could be time for a move, harder work but more job satisfaction that's for sure!
You are kidding right? Since when? I don't know of a single ATC from Melbourne that would go there. Besides the fact that no ATC would have the balls to go, they are too concerned with working a coupe of extra weeks work to get an extra weeks rec leave.
Race to the bottom, keep going boys and girls. ATC, the new Jetstar, you are the next targets.
As an ex tradie, I see jobs for my trade going at 120 gorillas a year, could be time for a move, harder work but more job satisfaction that's for sure!
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The fact that you haven't already gone back to being a tradie says what?
Yes - a few are leaving already to the sandpit (and other places), and it is because they don't want to joina race to the bottom like you infer. Pending Supply issues mean ATC's are looking more for a race to the top.
ML Centre and BN Centre are two very different places.
Yes - a few are leaving already to the sandpit (and other places), and it is because they don't want to joina race to the bottom like you infer. Pending Supply issues mean ATC's are looking more for a race to the top.
ML Centre and BN Centre are two very different places.
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I was an Assistant Air Traffic Controller in the RAF.
My best mate is now an ATC instructor at Shawbury, but he is also thinking of venturing this way at the end of his service. He was thinking NZ, but I am hoping he will see the error of his ways, and come to OZ
My best mate is now an ATC instructor at Shawbury, but he is also thinking of venturing this way at the end of his service. He was thinking NZ, but I am hoping he will see the error of his ways, and come to OZ
Procedural towers is where the action is at. Sure, you don't get paid as much, but nothing even comes close to job satisfaction.. Radar controllers couldn't sequence to save their lives, but don't worry, us poor, undervalued, underpaid procedural controllers will be here to fix up your crap sequences...
And is money really everything? Don't get me wrong, i love cash as much as the next beer drinker, but when you work your ass of for 3 (yes, 3) hours straight, then look back and go " well that sure was fun" (in a sick kinda way), somethings are worth more...
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En-Rooter, one guy from your own row is looking at Oman as we speak. Agree that the average controller is soft enough to grab the quick buck and watch the conditions slide into oblivion.
Fixa24, "location:Melbourne", procedural tower? You sound like your from Hobart 
Aluminium Persuader, If you really want to go to YBBN, pack some warm clothes and we'll see you in Melbourne.
Fixa24, "location:Melbourne", procedural tower? You sound like your from Hobart
Aluminium Persuader, If you really want to go to YBBN, pack some warm clothes and we'll see you in Melbourne.
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Radar controllers couldn't sequence to save their lives, but don't worry, us poor, undervalued, underpaid procedural controllers will be here to fix up your crap sequences
Some of us handoff to a Radar Tower you know!
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RS - I remember Melbourne in July from when I was a kid. Brrr!
Bullwinkle - When did you make the break? Are you still in ATC & how hard was it to make the move?
For the others - I'm a terminal control guy - ADC, approach procedural (done for real in Scotland for a few years) and approach radar. I've done "open FIR" stuff, training airfields, mil & some int'l airport. Where would they want to send me with that lot?
While I'm on a roll, anyone know what the conversion course is like & how long does it last?
Oh, and any ballpark figure for the joining salary?
Bullwinkle - When did you make the break? Are you still in ATC & how hard was it to make the move?
For the others - I'm a terminal control guy - ADC, approach procedural (done for real in Scotland for a few years) and approach radar. I've done "open FIR" stuff, training airfields, mil & some int'l airport. Where would they want to send me with that lot?
While I'm on a roll, anyone know what the conversion course is like & how long does it last?
Oh, and any ballpark figure for the joining salary?
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http://www.wagenet.gov.au/WageNet/Se...A)&quickview=Y
Field Training is at about 50K.
Initial Rating for an Ab-Initio is about 68K but as an experienced controller recruit they should offer, and you should negotiate more.
The pay is one of the reasons ATC is now very short of suitable applicants at ab-initio level, and starting to lose experienced people to overseas.
Field Training is at about 50K.
Initial Rating for an Ab-Initio is about 68K but as an experienced controller recruit they should offer, and you should negotiate more.
The pay is one of the reasons ATC is now very short of suitable applicants at ab-initio level, and starting to lose experienced people to overseas.
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At the CEOs roadshow yesterday he claimed that there is no intent to cut "current" controllers salaries... Read into that what you will; seems TFNs is confirming a short career path here at least he gave no time frame when asked.