Command Seat
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Command Seat
Mate told me he knows someone who got "pinged" for flying in the right seat (PPL) with his mate who doesn't fly in the left so he can get a feel for it. Raises the question for me... I thought the left seat was the command seat and the pilot must sit in it, but I can't find a reference to it in the regs via google etc. I know Commercially you can definitely switch over. Anyone able to search better than me or know the reg from memory? Thanks!
Mate told me he knows someone who got "pinged" for flying in the right seat (PPL) with his mate who doesn't fly in the left so he can get a feel for it. Raises the question for me... I thought the left seat was the command seat and the pilot must sit in it, but I can't find a reference to it in the regs via google etc. I know Commercially you can definitely switch over. Anyone able to search better than me or know the reg from memory? Thanks!
Some flight manuals require a specific seating arrangements for a pilot for access to switches etc, may or may nor specify the PIC.
You cannot have a "PIC in LHS rule" as poses a number of questions for single place aircraft, helicopters, and tandem aircraft.
No such rule exists.
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Agree with SWH
but I can't find a reference to it in the regs via google etc
Unless specified in the POH (e.g the RHS doesn't have a full set of controls, such as RH brakes) the PIC can fly from the RHS.
Some flying schools (certainly where I learnt) were against it, unless you were an instructor (Wasn't in their Ops manual either).
I've flown PIC from the RHS in a few a/c and agree with Archangel7, that it would be WISE to at least do a few circuits with an instructor, so that you can get used to the different visual clues and "muscle memory".
DIVOSH!
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swh
As far as I am aware there is always someone with a command endorsement on type in the cockpit, this can be the F/O if the Skipper is in the rack.
Led to believe QF didn't satisfy this requirement for a lot of years until just recently and now F/O's are given command endorsements during their conversion. Maybe someone else could shed more light on this for me?
As far as I am aware there is always someone with a command endorsement on type in the cockpit, this can be the F/O if the Skipper is in the rack.
Led to believe QF didn't satisfy this requirement for a lot of years until just recently and now F/O's are given command endorsements during their conversion. Maybe someone else could shed more light on this for me?
My comments were in relation to the PIC, as the question was in relation to a command seat, not a person holding a command endorsement.
The PIC for a flight in an airline environment may be a C&T person in the jump seat, never occupying a control seat for an entire flight.
In terms of co-pilot ratings, you comments are equally applicable to a lot of turboprop operators if the captain goes to the facilities.
My understanding at QF FOs get command endorsements as the cadets require one in order to log ICUS.
The PIC for a flight in an airline environment may be a C&T person in the jump seat, never occupying a control seat for an entire flight.
In terms of co-pilot ratings, you comments are equally applicable to a lot of turboprop operators if the captain goes to the facilities.
My understanding at QF FOs get command endorsements as the cadets require one in order to log ICUS.
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On a check with a C&T in the jumpseat I think you'll find the Captain is still PIC not the C&T in the jumpseat.
As for cadets being able to log ICUS as the reason I beg to differ, because for years when the skipper was out of the cockpit it was technically not legal for the F/O to assume command in his absence when the F/O didn't hold a command endorsement simple as that.
CASA made QF align themselves with the rest of the worlds carriers, plenty of which don't have cadets.
As for regionals when the skipper uses the facility I don't know.
As for cadets being able to log ICUS as the reason I beg to differ, because for years when the skipper was out of the cockpit it was technically not legal for the F/O to assume command in his absence when the F/O didn't hold a command endorsement simple as that.
CASA made QF align themselves with the rest of the worlds carriers, plenty of which don't have cadets.
As for regionals when the skipper uses the facility I don't know.
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VH-XXX,
Yes. Unless the POH or operations manual states otherwise. I can't recall ever seeing it in a fixed wing aircraft though. Every operator I have worked for has had it in their ops manual
W.
Did you reinsert this thread after J430 had a cry
?
Are you trying to play with our heads
?
Not guilty.
Sunny Woomera
Yes. Unless the POH or operations manual states otherwise. I can't recall ever seeing it in a fixed wing aircraft though. Every operator I have worked for has had it in their ops manual
W.
Did you reinsert this thread after J430 had a cry
?Are you trying to play with our heads
?Not guilty.
Sunny Woomera
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Thought my eyes were playing tricks
MONOPOLE
Thank you for that, I assume by your comments that you too noticed the thread missing. I had just put it down to me not seeing the woods for the trees........or going stupid.
Woomsie claims they did not pull it, but I swear it did vanish even for only a brief time.
Cheers
J
Thank you for that, I assume by your comments that you too noticed the thread missing. I had just put it down to me not seeing the woods for the trees........or going stupid.
Woomsie claims they did not pull it, but I swear it did vanish even for only a brief time.
Cheers
J
Was the "pinging" for sitting in the RHS or breach of CAR 228 - unauthorised manipulation of controls? Why else would you put someone in a seat to "get a feel"?
On a check with a C&T in the jumpseat I think you'll find the Captain is still PIC not the C&T in the jumpseat.
As for cadets being able to log ICUS as the reason I beg to differ, because for years when the skipper was out of the cockpit it was technically not legal for the F/O to assume command in his absence when the F/O didn't hold a command endorsement simple as that.
As for cadets being able to log ICUS as the reason I beg to differ, because for years when the skipper was out of the cockpit it was technically not legal for the F/O to assume command in his absence when the F/O didn't hold a command endorsement simple as that.
The PIC is nominated by the operator, not by the position one sits in an aircraft or the class of endorsement they have. A list of requirements must be met by the operator to nominate a person as the PIC.
Under the Australian regulations, an operator may only nominate only 1 PIC per flight, the PIC does not change to the FO, even if they "hand over", logs ICUS etc, the PIC is still the PIC regardless of where they are in the aircraft, even fast asleep in the bunk.
You maybe getting yourself mixed up with some of the mouth music used by some operators, e.g. “you have command” is not transferring command, it is transferring Pilot Flying, and Pilot Not Flying duties, nothing more.
An FO is never in command of an aircraft unless the PIC is incapacitated, and that is an emergency situation, not a normal practice.
It maybe legal, but maybe not that smart. E.g. the slight move in the seating position from the LHS to RHS causes small but subtle judgment changes for even simple things like flying a circuit, let alone for say a forced landing.
The cost of a T.I.F. is cheap insurance.
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Never seen or heard of a Captain under training flying with an F/O. Any Captain under training would fly with a training Captain admitedly he would be in the right hand seat and would be the PIC but a C&T in the jumpseat checking a Captain would never be the PIC which is was what I was getting at.
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I only ever flew RHS once and it's a lot different from left. I recommend going up with an instructor if you want to experiment, especially if you haven't got much flying experience.
The left hand seat is the command seat in fixed wing aircraft by convention only
There is no regulation anywhere that states that the Captain must sit in the left hand seat.
similarly the right hand seat is the captains seat in a rotary wing aircraft by convention.
It is "the way we have always done it" rather than a specific rule....
There is no regulation anywhere that states that the Captain must sit in the left hand seat.
similarly the right hand seat is the captains seat in a rotary wing aircraft by convention.
It is "the way we have always done it" rather than a specific rule....
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It kinda looks weird without anyone sitting in the LHS. BTW, isn't there something in the regs about having to be established on final by a certain distance from the threshold?