Qantas Group Pilots One seniority list

[fl610]

Further to Neville's post.

I fly for a long haul corporate jet operator and our director of operations (who decides on promotions, trips etc.) last flew an aircraft more than 20 years ago and that was short haul, single pilot turbo prop equipment.

He promotes people on their ability to suck a golf ball through a garden hose.

[B A Lert]

Hi Nev! Your name says it all - if there wasn't seniority, perhaps you would indeed be a Nobody??? Seriously, you've obviously not managed or supervised staff as you have written

So how do you start deciding as to who should get a command and who shouldn't when they are all passing your standard to a satisfactory level. ANd once you get that level how do decide who flys better? If everyone can shoot the approaches and follow proceedures how will you separate them?

It is a fact that most people who have been in a job for a period and know that job will perform it to a satisfactory level. The differentiating factor between the workers is how they do it - a subjective view. Some will just 'do it', others will far exceeed the requirements. This is obvious from observation, output and a number of other factors. Why should pilots be any different? They are not process workers.


There is nothing to prevent the use of seniority for the allocation of leave etc - in fact that is quite sensible as it would prevent a lot of dispute between the troops but when it comes to getting the best person and 'right fit' for the task, it is simply an old-fashioned view of life. Apart from pilots, can you point me to any segment of the work force that still works solely on seniority to determine promotion? Haven't your Qantas colleagues who tend to the needs of your passengers moved to a merit based system?

[WalterMitty]

Nev, again I state it is not just about promotion to Captain. At QF it affects EVERYTHING because of something that happened 1,5,10,20, 30+ years ago. Pure seniority causes people with 10-15000 hours being held back while others with a few thousand get promotions. It just plain wrong and QF management are stuck with it for now. I argue that many factors should be considered for promotion, with seniority amongst them to differentiate only when other factors are equal. Some will argue that this will cause DEC and DEFO and it will but thats ok. QF pilots need to wake up that QF are going to change everything under the umbrella of "market forces" and if DEC happens at QF then many peolple will leave for promotion. That will truly subject QF to the full force of "market forces".I like that idea. The power to leave is the only power left to QF pilots under current industrial law and I believe QF would have to offer good terms and promotion prospects to retain staff. Of course the downside of a 911 etc would work against pilots but I think its about time Australian pilots joined the world market. Seniority is a chain around our legs,not our saviour from unfair brownosing etc. The recent J* EBA for widebodies demonstrated that clearly because it allowed the majority of both senior and junior j* pilots to ALWAYS have one over the QF pilots despite outrageous disparities of experience and seniority from a "group" point of view. Vested interests at QF would also never go for it because of the regionals which would have many very senior pilots. On that issue many still hang their hat with blind stubborness. If I were at Eastern etc. I would leave. Only option as far as I can see. Ironically it will come to pass that those who left Oz and got command time o/s will come back to inherit this part of the earth and EXPERIENCE got them that, not seniority. Now ironically again they will get both.

Now on the topic of seniority for leave etc. from BA Lert. CX do not have it. They have a points bidding system I believe. I really like that idea. At AN all holiday issues followed the seniority rotation, like rosters. These issues were never arguedabout at AN, yet at QF its all you ever hear--which sounds fairer to you?