Do we really need DAPs???
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Do we really need DAPs???
I've been thinking about how CASA could better spend their funding on Civil Aviation in Australia. Discrad the issue of DAP's and their associated ammendment service. I have been flying Instrument approaches without the use of CASA instrument charts for years and have never had any problems. I could name several other operateors who do the same. There is a sure fire way to conduct an approach in cloud and succefully land without jeopardising safety. This can be done in flight so pre flight prepartation is reduced. Firstly, whip out your WAC chart as your approach the CTAF or MBZ or airfeild. Then, look at where you are and where you want to go. Then, look at the surrounding terrain, find the spot height,, confirm with your GPS your exact position and then add 200' to this elevation. I have allowed some 'fat' here becuase it depends on how much your altimeter was out before you departed. NB: remember to get a revised area QNH before you conduct this approach. Then it's a simple procedure of descending at a comfortable RoD whilst monitoring your GPS for distance. Also, remember to look out the fron for approaching terrain and, but mainly look down to make sure you are on slope. Downward visibilty will normally be better than forward vis as forward vis is reduced. This can be used as a substitue for a RADALT. We know it as VISALT. This approach can be used at any airfield where there is a runway, from any direction. Make sure your GPS data card is up to date and that BOTH your VSI and Altimeter are servicable. And there you have it. Money saved on : DAPS EAST/WEST, ERC Charts, Fuel (due holding) TIme and safety is increased becuase of the reduced time in IF conditions.
plane of motion
Did you mention this great cost cutting idea to the airlines when you went for interviews last year?
I take it they didn't believe you when you told them you flew Hornets for a living either. (Check out some of his previous posts).
Did you mention this great cost cutting idea to the airlines when you went for interviews last year?
I take it they didn't believe you when you told them you flew Hornets for a living either. (Check out some of his previous posts).
Check Attitude
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Plane of Motion
Whilst I suspect a tongue in cheek windup here,
CASA does not produce DAPs, ASA does, so no cost benefit to CASA.
CASA did, however, recently write to us all and ask us nicely to follow the published procedures (DAPs & Jepps).
There is some merit in flying a procedure as published.
And if this is not a windup, I suggest you might practice your techniques at Lockhart River, particularly from the Western sectors.
If you're not successful, at least you'll go out with a big bang.
Whilst I suspect a tongue in cheek windup here,
CASA does not produce DAPs, ASA does, so no cost benefit to CASA.
CASA did, however, recently write to us all and ask us nicely to follow the published procedures (DAPs & Jepps).
There is some merit in flying a procedure as published.
And if this is not a windup, I suggest you might practice your techniques at Lockhart River, particularly from the Western sectors.
If you're not successful, at least you'll go out with a big bang.
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Wind-up or not, with the availability of the new breed of GPS with terrain mapping / awareness and 3 Dimensional terrain rendering will make this kind of approach the norm for many operators as it has already started to become. I know of operators conducting the Garmin 396 approach into a host of locations that don't even have published approach procedures and even the ones that do. With a new GPS and blue Mountains type EFIS or similar, you could fly up a valley in blanket fog with Top-Gun precision following the 3D terrain. When you've experienced a GPS like this, it's so hard to not use it, rely on it and trust it. It's where it's all headed, although I'm still yet to work out what happens when you have a GPS failure. Pull up very quickly perhaps ? 
QNH1013.2
If you use your IFR GPS as you have stated you will one day come very unstuck. Do a little research on GPS accuracy in mountainous terrain and you will see what I mean.
If you use your IFR GPS as you have stated you will one day come very unstuck. Do a little research on GPS accuracy in mountainous terrain and you will see what I mean.
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I operate in the highlands of PNG with a terrain mapping equipped Garmin 430 and as nice as it is there is still no way I would like to bet my life on that terrain page. If you have one - look in the manual. It says it is not to be relied on for terrain separation/avoidance below LSALT and for good reason. At the moment the terrain data is supplied by the relevant government agencies from whatever map and terrain data they have - it is not precision data! In my case maps still have statements on them like "terrain heights not believed to exceed blah" or "relief data incomplete." More than once I have tested a few 'black holes' in the database by flying directly at a ridge below ridge top height (in VMC of course!) with no yellow or red shading on the terrain page let alone a pop-up warning! Had I been relying on a warning or even colour shading in IMC to save me I would have been severly dissapointed but not alive to feel that way.
This sort of technology is great and shows promise for the future but those who are tempted to rely on it at the expense of following due procedure and rules at the moment are foolish and might find themselves with less than nine lives sooner or later...! The rules we have now came about through much loss of life due to operations to the contrary - let's not re-invent the wheel using the same currency of death.
Plane of Motion - for your longevity's sake I do hope it's a windup!
This sort of technology is great and shows promise for the future but those who are tempted to rely on it at the expense of following due procedure and rules at the moment are foolish and might find themselves with less than nine lives sooner or later...! The rules we have now came about through much loss of life due to operations to the contrary - let's not re-invent the wheel using the same currency of death.
Plane of Motion - for your longevity's sake I do hope it's a windup!
When you live....
Plane of Motion, for your school homework suggest you try reading this ATSB report and provide us with your analysis of any lessons that may learnt from DIY approach procedures.
Good wind-up though......
Good wind-up though......
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Breaking News
Here is the news
It was reported today that Plane of Motions, motion - stopped suddenly when the spot height he used was 200 feet lower than the height of the surrounding terrain. It is believed that the spot height was not necessarily the highest point in the surrounding terrain.
Witnesses who saw Plane of Motions, motion stopping - reported that he wasn't looking where he was or where he wanted to go.
Due to the sudden impact he no longer has a 'Fat' but instead is spread very 'thin' - "like a skid mark on me undies" is how one witness described the wreckage.
On other news it was reported that some satellite systems used by the US Department of defence were suffering interference that could result in loss of transmission............
It was reported today that Plane of Motions, motion - stopped suddenly when the spot height he used was 200 feet lower than the height of the surrounding terrain. It is believed that the spot height was not necessarily the highest point in the surrounding terrain.
Witnesses who saw Plane of Motions, motion stopping - reported that he wasn't looking where he was or where he wanted to go.
Due to the sudden impact he no longer has a 'Fat' but instead is spread very 'thin' - "like a skid mark on me undies" is how one witness described the wreckage.
On other news it was reported that some satellite systems used by the US Department of defence were suffering interference that could result in loss of transmission............
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Why stop at just getting rid of DAPS/Jepps?
I think you should submit your case to CASA and ASA.
I mean, if you're going to knock out DAPS, why not go the whole hog and get rid of MSAs, LSALTs, OMs, MDAs/DHs... Hell, you could almost do away with navaids!
Think of all the money that would save! They wouldn't even need a cost recovery program!
I think you should quickly copyright or patent your idea - before someone steals it and your glory...
I think you should submit your case to CASA and ASA.
I mean, if you're going to knock out DAPS, why not go the whole hog and get rid of MSAs, LSALTs, OMs, MDAs/DHs... Hell, you could almost do away with navaids!
Think of all the money that would save! They wouldn't even need a cost recovery program!
I think you should quickly copyright or patent your idea - before someone steals it and your glory...
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Unfortunately I think plane of motion does touch a point in that if some people think the equipment has the capability they will use it. Witness the controlled airpace busts from using the nav capabilities of GPS, direct to for example with no appreciation of where that track takes them. And then there are some who practice IMC but not IFR because the aircraft has the capability. And those who think actually having a rating is an encumbrance. To what extent it goes on is difficult to know but the accident files have examples of all. And one accident is always one too many.
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This wind up sure has brought out the cowboys.....yeeee ha
Why post this kind of rubbish. it doen't impress anyone
Why not however post the list of operators you claim are using these techniques.
or are you full of it?????
Why post this kind of rubbish. it doen't impress anyone
Why not however post the list of operators you claim are using these techniques.
or are you full of it?????
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Originally Posted by plane of motion
I've been thinking about how CASA could better spend their funding on Civil Aviation in Australia. Discrad the issue of DAP's and their associated ammendment service. I have been flying Instrument approaches without the use of CASA instrument charts for years and have never had any problems. I could name several other operateors who do the same. There is a sure fire way to conduct an approach in cloud and succefully land without jeopardising safety. This can be done in flight so pre flight prepartation is reduced. Firstly, whip out your WAC chart as your approach the CTAF or MBZ or airfeild. Then, look at where you are and where you want to go. Then, look at the surrounding terrain, find the spot height,, confirm with your GPS your exact position and then add 200' to this elevation. I have allowed some 'fat' here becuase it depends on how much your altimeter was out before you departed. NB: remember to get a revised area QNH before you conduct this approach. Then it's a simple procedure of descending at a comfortable RoD whilst monitoring your GPS for distance. Also, remember to look out the fron for approaching terrain and, but mainly look down to make sure you are on slope. Downward visibilty will normally be better than forward vis as forward vis is reduced. This can be used as a substitue for a RADALT. We know it as VISALT. This approach can be used at any airfield where there is a runway, from any direction. Make sure your GPS data card is up to date and that BOTH your VSI and Altimeter are servicable. And there you have it. Money saved on : DAPS EAST/WEST, ERC Charts, Fuel (due holding) TIme and safety is increased becuase of the reduced time in IF conditions.
1. Commence descent at standard rate.
2. For the final 2000' feet (don't worry about an exact fix, not overly needed as you'll see in step 3.) descend at 500' feet per minute.
3. Descend until visual or under "WHOOP WHOOP, PULL UP" and treat that as minima
4. If you are a girls blouse, you can use "TERRAIN, TERRAIN" as your minima.
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Why not however post the list of operators you claim are using these techniques. or are you full of it?????
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plane of motion WHAT THE @#$@ DO YOU THINK YOU ARE DOING? OH YER JUST CHUCK IN THE LAT AND LONG INTO THE GPS AND WAY YOU GO YER? LOOK WHAT HAPPENED AT MT HOTHAM? YOU ARE A IDIOT , WIND UP OR NOT UR STILL ARE IDIOT WHO PROBABLY DIDN'T MAKE THE AIR LINE CAUSE OF YOU RUBISH PROCEDURES!!!!
Brucekabuce
Brucekabuce