Advice wanted - IFR into YSBK

[UnderneathTheRadar]

To the BK locals and SY ATC, I'm planning my first IFR trip up to Sydney soon and am after some info/advice on what to expect (as I'm an inexperienced IFR pilot).

From documents and charts, I'm think I'm expected to file in via Bindook and should expect a Wattle arrival if VMC? Only hassle is I'm not signed off for STARS (no need for GA down south) - if I tell approach this on first contact can I assume they'll sort me out?

If IMC and needing the NDB approach will it always be the one which commences 5nm to the SE or could I expect any of the three?

For the departure to Melbourne in a single, would Glenfiled- WOL - Shellys be the preferred route?

Any other info or tips gratefully recieved,

UTR.

[FullySickBro]

G'day,

Bindook Watle BK will do the job. Only points I would add is that the WATLE 4 can leave you hot and high if you're not careful. If you decide to go it OCTA then be weary of the 4500 and 2500 ft CTA steps. If you think your going to clip them just ask ATC for a clearance to transit them, they're pretty good like that...

ATC will usually advise if an approach is necessary which usually is the 11C NDB unless you request otherwise.

BK cordo Shelleys works well for southern departures from memory...

Have fun

[Bevan666]

When inbound to bankstown IFR from the south expect to fly bindook then the WATLE STAR. If you have a CIR you are qualified to fly a STAR, but if you have a PIFR then you may not. Its a pretty bog simple arrival though. If not qualified, say as much, and I suppose you will receive a different route (or be asked to track WATLE-SY ...)

To enforce what FullySickBro said, one day I turned the corner at WATLE and picked up a nice honking tailwind and had about 230knots GS in a Bonanza.. had to throw out all the draggy bits to get down in time (otherwise I'd have sailed over sydney airport and beyond...)

If not visual, then expect any one of the NDB approaches (if you are not GPS endorsed and equipped). Radar will descend you to the various radar MVA's as they lower, to enable you to get visual without the need to fly an approach. Now, if the vis or ceiling is a bit on the low side, watch out for 2RN, as its a very big tower.....

Now on departure to the south, file and fly the prefered route as per the AIP (which is BANTU, CORDO SHELLYS YAS).

Bevan..

[gunshy67]

Flying Stars without FMC TSO's GPS

Is it correct that a CIR qualifiies you to fly Stars. That would be so in an aircraft equipped with the right nav gear but how do you navigate through some Stars using anologue nav gear only? Some can but many can't

Have a look at the Melbourne area and see the rated coverage of nav aids and then look at the Stars that really need FMC/GPS gear.

I recall when Stars were introduced they were only authorised to be used with FMC equipped aircraft.

I spoke to an ATS manager in Melbourne who really wasn't interested and had the "clear view" that any CIR pilot can be issued with a Star "anywhere and anytime."

When asked about an ADF only equipped aircraft he restated his view and that was that.

As for me......................in my own analogue aircraft I will simply not accept a Star as I am not that good.

Gratefull for advice.

[Ratshit]

I agree that if you hold a CIR you are legal to fly a STAR - provided you have the gear. Hard to see how you can fly most STARs without GPS. If you are private, suggest you do what the Rat did before getting the GNS430, get a good GPS like the Garmin GPSMAP 296 and use that to fly the STAR. It is a brilliant unit and worth every cent.

Rat

[Capt Fathom]

Stars that require RNAV (ie GPS or Area Nav System) are labelled RNAV.
Stars that are not labelled as RNAV can be navigated using conventional navaids and are designed as such.

[Ratshit]

Stars that require RNAV (ie GPS or Area Nav System) are labelled RNAV.

Captn's is indeed correct.

Sydney/Bankstown STARs Richmond 4 and Watle 4 do not require RNAV/GPS just NDB/VOR/DME as approp.

Rat

[Ozgrade3]

Plan Bindook Wattle Bk. That will bring you inbound on the Sydney 259 Radial. This radial conveniently takes you straight to 2RN the inbound reporting point for Bankstown. 2RN can be found easily by dialing up 576 on the ADF, ident is the radio station.

If you plan a departure via shellies, you will probably get a Bankston 1 dept then vectors to intercept the SY208 Radial. Sometime they will ask you to track direct to Bantu or Cordo so have a rough heading in mind.

[DirectAnywhere]

If worst comes to worst and it's all getting too hard, tell them you're "UNABLE to do blah, blah" (note key word) and request radar vectors. You're payin' 'em, might as well use 'em!!

I'm with RS and Capt Fathom. Holding a CIR you're allowed to fly STARS provided the aircraft is suitably equipped and you're suitably endorsed.

Good luck and make sure you have fun!

[Metro man]

At all costs avoid the time when the bank runners return (given in airport details), it gets "chaotic"

[UnderneathTheRadar]

Thanks all for the info. Off tommorrow so will see how it pans out.

For info, I'm PIFR only with no SIDS/STARS FPA.

Cheers again,

UTR.

[DirectAnywhere]

Weather's supposed to be improving but it's been pretty crappy the last few days and pretty cold. Watch your freezing levels!!

Have fun.