One group..........or we're finished!!
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And the cleaners got paid that because that it what it took to find someone willing to live out there.
Whilst there are definitely less experienced pilots avilable now than at any time I can remember, to call it a shortage is a little premature. You just have to look at the recruiting to know that there are fewer pilots available with the requisite experience to fill jobs, however I do not believe there is a shortage just yet as pay and conditions continue to at best stay stable or worst deteriorate.
As has been stated it is simply a case of supply and demand. At the moment supply still exceeds demand. I guess the question is will it continue? To my eyes it will in the short to mid term (5 years or so) as there are still shed loads of pilots coming through the system. Byond that who knows, will VB last, will J*intl die, will the Rat even survive?
Cheers
CB
Whilst there are definitely less experienced pilots avilable now than at any time I can remember, to call it a shortage is a little premature. You just have to look at the recruiting to know that there are fewer pilots available with the requisite experience to fill jobs, however I do not believe there is a shortage just yet as pay and conditions continue to at best stay stable or worst deteriorate.
As has been stated it is simply a case of supply and demand. At the moment supply still exceeds demand. I guess the question is will it continue? To my eyes it will in the short to mid term (5 years or so) as there are still shed loads of pilots coming through the system. Byond that who knows, will VB last, will J*intl die, will the Rat even survive?
Cheers
CB
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I agree with cloud basher.
If there is such a shortage, how come skippers can ask for 500multi to be a metro f/o, take their pick of applicants, charge them for the endo, and then only employ them as casuals? If jet* are so desperate, why are their min requirements higher than qf and cathay combined.... and even with those requirements you would be lucky to get a look in......then IF you got a look in they expect you to shell out your life savings on an endo? Why have skywest decided that you need english, maths, physics plus an extra subject to fly for them? I could go on and on.
p.s. Work still receives at least one resume A DAY.
I pray every night that the shortage will come!!
If there is such a shortage, how come skippers can ask for 500multi to be a metro f/o, take their pick of applicants, charge them for the endo, and then only employ them as casuals? If jet* are so desperate, why are their min requirements higher than qf and cathay combined.... and even with those requirements you would be lucky to get a look in......then IF you got a look in they expect you to shell out your life savings on an endo? Why have skywest decided that you need english, maths, physics plus an extra subject to fly for them? I could go on and on.
p.s. Work still receives at least one resume A DAY.
I pray every night that the shortage will come!!
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I think it needs to be put in perspective. Sounds like a shortage of pilots that meet their qualification requirements, willing to live in a 
hole, and have a cash salary of $40k. I wouldn't be extropolating that result out to the entire industry.
hole, and have a cash salary of $40k. I wouldn't be extropolating that result out to the entire industry.
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Originally Posted by aircraft
You keep saying that the company "could not find pilots". I think what you mean to say is that pilots "were not coming forward".
So why were they not coming forward when they knew about the T&Cs? Obviously because they didn't feel the job was worth it. Sure the package may have been 62.5k, but when you take out rent (and other bits) the gross pay would have been around 40k.
So, for pilots with 500+ hours multi, on 40k living sometimes at mine sites and spending half the time in the right hand seat of a Baron - doesn't sound too enticing to me. The Auswest management would have realised that it wasn't very enticing after all and tried to increase the pay - but there would have been a limit on how high they could go - the limit set be Rio Tinto in the contract!
So, simple economics after all - how surprising!
So why were they not coming forward when they knew about the T&Cs? Obviously because they didn't feel the job was worth it. Sure the package may have been 62.5k, but when you take out rent (and other bits) the gross pay would have been around 40k.
So, for pilots with 500+ hours multi, on 40k living sometimes at mine sites and spending half the time in the right hand seat of a Baron - doesn't sound too enticing to me. The Auswest management would have realised that it wasn't very enticing after all and tried to increase the pay - but there would have been a limit on how high they could go - the limit set be Rio Tinto in the contract!
So, simple economics after all - how surprising!
They could not find pilots. Simple. Every Pilot that left took a paycut with their new job. Simply because they were getting Turbine, two crew experience that will be more valuable to them in the future than piston twin.
If these position were not there than they would still be a Aus west.Pilots with 500+ multi are getting jobs with regionals all the time until this stops than companies like Auswest and smallet RPT piston outfits will struggle to find pilots.
Why you ask because there is a shortage of pilots
You my friend a Twit if you can't see this.
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Originally Posted by Pass-A-Frozo
I think it needs to be put in perspective. Sounds like a shortage of pilots that meet their qualification requirements, willing to live in a hole, and have a cash salary of $40k. I wouldn't be extropolating that result out to the entire industry.
hole, and have a cash salary of $40k. I wouldn't be extropolating that result out to the entire industry.The pilots left to go to bigger and better things and this has a flow on effect, it makes the company next doot value his pilots more, it proves to all other operators that if you dont have pilots you dont operate.
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Originally Posted by M.25
I agree with cloud basher.
If there is such a shortage, how come skippers can ask for 500multi to be a metro f/o, take their pick of applicants, charge them for the endo, and then only employ them as casuals? If jet* are so desperate, why are their min requirements higher than qf and cathay combined.... and even with those requirements you would be lucky to get a look in......then IF you got a look in they expect you to shell out your life savings on an endo? Why have skywest decided that you need english, maths, physics plus an extra subject to fly for them? I could go on and on.
p.s. Work still receives at least one resume A DAY.
I pray every night that the shortage will come!!
If there is such a shortage, how come skippers can ask for 500multi to be a metro f/o, take their pick of applicants, charge them for the endo, and then only employ them as casuals? If jet* are so desperate, why are their min requirements higher than qf and cathay combined.... and even with those requirements you would be lucky to get a look in......then IF you got a look in they expect you to shell out your life savings on an endo? Why have skywest decided that you need english, maths, physics plus an extra subject to fly for them? I could go on and on.
p.s. Work still receives at least one resume A DAY.
I pray every night that the shortage will come!!
Skippers are losing pilots as quick as they can get them. Times will change very soon.
The shortage will hurt the Smaller regionals first like skippers etc..... then the bigger regionals like REX.... This will happen next year when Jet* starts it's expansion. Pilots from Virgin will Jump for quicker commands either to Jet* or overseas.
The Majors in Australia have hurt the industry so much in the last 5-6 years and it willbite them hard very soon.
One way to fix the problem is to erradicate the BS 500 multi rule. That will free the market up a bit. Allow people to pick who they want with or without 500 multi. 500 multi in a piston twin has very little resemblance to multi crew turbine flying anyway.
I've flown Americans around who have wet themselves laughing at the requirements to fly bugsmashers in Australia!! There are Ads in Flight Int'l to fly Jets with 500 Total!!
You know there will be a pilot shortage in this country when QF Link, Jetstar, Virgin stop charging for endorsements and pay rates start going up a bit. As that would appear to be a long way off I don't think we are anywhere near a pilot shortage yet.
I've flown Americans around who have wet themselves laughing at the requirements to fly bugsmashers in Australia!! There are Ads in Flight Int'l to fly Jets with 500 Total!!
You know there will be a pilot shortage in this country when QF Link, Jetstar, Virgin stop charging for endorsements and pay rates start going up a bit. As that would appear to be a long way off I don't think we are anywhere near a pilot shortage yet.
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Auswest
Charliethewonderdog,
With all due respect (you might know more about Aus-west than I ever will), from an outsiders point of view their ‘selection process’ had some serious flaws.
I remember filling out an online application out of curiosity when they first advertised for pilots after raising the minimums and offering above award. After spending about 45miniutes answering all of the questions, I pressed submit….only to have a screen displayed stating that I did not meet the minimum requirements so my application could not be submitted. My shortfall was that I didn’t have multi engine NVFR on my license! (I can’t understand why you would need that if the operation was IFR anyway?)
Other requirements included some short mining course and senior first aid. I understand that these were required for the contract, but I don’t understand why they couldn’t at least accept applications without these small details and just dedicate a new employees first week to completing these short and simple courses?
I would imagine that out of the people that met the flying requirements, very few would have met ALL of the requirements…..even then those who did were then faced with a “3 phase selection process” which could be compared to that of a major airline. After passing stage 1 and then getting yourself to Karratha for stage 2 and 3 - “Assessment results cannot be discussed with the candidate on the day of assessment. Each candidate will be contacted by letter, fax, phone or e-mail as appropriate within 1 week of assessment.” A huge ordeal for a minesite job in a baron that you might not get anyway. Just a thought.
With all due respect (you might know more about Aus-west than I ever will), from an outsiders point of view their ‘selection process’ had some serious flaws.
I remember filling out an online application out of curiosity when they first advertised for pilots after raising the minimums and offering above award. After spending about 45miniutes answering all of the questions, I pressed submit….only to have a screen displayed stating that I did not meet the minimum requirements so my application could not be submitted. My shortfall was that I didn’t have multi engine NVFR on my license! (I can’t understand why you would need that if the operation was IFR anyway?)
Other requirements included some short mining course and senior first aid. I understand that these were required for the contract, but I don’t understand why they couldn’t at least accept applications without these small details and just dedicate a new employees first week to completing these short and simple courses?
I would imagine that out of the people that met the flying requirements, very few would have met ALL of the requirements…..even then those who did were then faced with a “3 phase selection process” which could be compared to that of a major airline. After passing stage 1 and then getting yourself to Karratha for stage 2 and 3 - “Assessment results cannot be discussed with the candidate on the day of assessment. Each candidate will be contacted by letter, fax, phone or e-mail as appropriate within 1 week of assessment.” A huge ordeal for a minesite job in a baron that you might not get anyway. Just a thought.
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Can't get pilots?
First up, I know nothing about Aus-West or how they operate, but in my previous life as a tradesman I came accross many companies who 'cannot get skilled workers'. INVARIABLY, these were the companies that had crap pay or conditions or supervisers with no people skills. Good companies will always get workers. They may have to work a bit harder to get them in lean times, and that is the real shock to GA. They may have to ADVERTISE and offer ABOVE AWARD PAY and GOOD CONDITIONS. Maybe even treat employees with RESPECT (the lady at Hardys take note). If this trend continues, GA might became a place where pilots would be quite happy to spend a few years before moving on to an airline.
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That "stupid" 500 multi requirement!
How many single engined airliners are there in Australia?
Personally, I wish the airlines would recruit pilots straight out of the flying schools, with no minimum hours requirement.
Then the GA operators would be able to operate to a much higher safety standard, using experienced, dedicated long term GA pilots.
And the el cheapo operators woild not have a constant supply of "prostitute" pilots, who undercut the genuine bush pilots. They would not be able to undercut the genuine bush operators. So they would have to operate properly.
The industry would be much healthier, safer,and more stable. Bush pilots would be paid more, and operators would be better off because they would have far less problems, with experienced staff.
Sure, there would be a lot less pilots looking for jobs out bush. They would be looking for airline jobs in the city, and the true pilot employment situation would be obvious
So those pilots who call my home a "****hole" or bitch about "clappd out aeroplanes" could all stay in the cities. And we would all be better off.
Personally, I wish the airlines would recruit pilots straight out of the flying schools, with no minimum hours requirement.
Then the GA operators would be able to operate to a much higher safety standard, using experienced, dedicated long term GA pilots.
And the el cheapo operators woild not have a constant supply of "prostitute" pilots, who undercut the genuine bush pilots. They would not be able to undercut the genuine bush operators. So they would have to operate properly.
The industry would be much healthier, safer,and more stable. Bush pilots would be paid more, and operators would be better off because they would have far less problems, with experienced staff.
Sure, there would be a lot less pilots looking for jobs out bush. They would be looking for airline jobs in the city, and the true pilot employment situation would be obvious
So those pilots who call my home a "****hole" or bitch about "clappd out aeroplanes" could all stay in the cities. And we would all be better off.
