Commercial Pilots - Navigation Techniques
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Commercial Pilots - Navigation Techniques
All of us in flight training got taught 6 minute markers or 6 mile markers or 1/3 markers etc so that we knew where we were and could revise our ETA and GS along the way a bit easier as well as those 1:60's if we were off track.
Just wondering how many of you working pilots out there still employ these same techniques??
Have you modified it somewhat, still use it the way the flying school taught you or do you just simply draw the line on the map and go from there??
Interested to hear people's opionions and techniques and how if at all have they varied.
Cheers all
MK
Just wondering how many of you working pilots out there still employ these same techniques??
Have you modified it somewhat, still use it the way the flying school taught you or do you just simply draw the line on the map and go from there??
Interested to hear people's opionions and techniques and how if at all have they varied.
Cheers all
MK
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What the tequila man said.
GPS aka Captain Garmin, brain, geeps makes life and flight planning easier. You can chase the best groundspeed, fly an accurate track, plan descents etc etc
BUT these cant be taken for granted, always have a map handy with a line drawn on it, a flight plan with distances and tracks (as a working pilot, usually a computer generated one) and have a fair idea where you are anyway, incase it goes blink or starts giving bogus information. Be prepared to pull out the old steam driven kit!
...Disco
GPS aka Captain Garmin, brain, geeps makes life and flight planning easier. You can chase the best groundspeed, fly an accurate track, plan descents etc etc
BUT these cant be taken for granted, always have a map handy with a line drawn on it, a flight plan with distances and tracks (as a working pilot, usually a computer generated one) and have a fair idea where you are anyway, incase it goes blink or starts giving bogus information. Be prepared to pull out the old steam driven kit!
...Disco
- charts are what i used to use Join Date: Jun 2003
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MamaK
It looks like I'm the only obsessive compulsive around here!
I do quite a bit of time single engine IFR and love the GNS 430/530 and the backup handheld - takes the brain work out of estimates, TOD etc. However, I do actually mark the planned track (and/or diversions as they happen) on an appropriate visual chart as well as 10 NM markers - and then keep track of them in flight using the GPS, marking off every 10NM (you can use whatever distance or time takes your fancy depending on ACFT groundspeed). If the GPS system goes belly up, I continue to have a good idea of where I was +/- a few minutes and if the fan goes quiet in IMC or on top I have a good idea of exactly where lower terrain may be and is also a good help if diverting from a track which has an LSALT lower than, say, Grid LSALT. Needless to say, a good autopilot helps stop the juggling of pens charts and yoke!
All of this is still useful in twins, especially those with poor single engine performance (most of the GA fleet!), just a bit busier again - choose 20 nm markers or so.
Keeps you busier than you otherwise might need to be but nothing beats it for situational awareness... and on a clear day over familiar terrain - nah, I don't do it then.
It looks like I'm the only obsessive compulsive around here!
I do quite a bit of time single engine IFR and love the GNS 430/530 and the backup handheld - takes the brain work out of estimates, TOD etc. However, I do actually mark the planned track (and/or diversions as they happen) on an appropriate visual chart as well as 10 NM markers - and then keep track of them in flight using the GPS, marking off every 10NM (you can use whatever distance or time takes your fancy depending on ACFT groundspeed). If the GPS system goes belly up, I continue to have a good idea of where I was +/- a few minutes and if the fan goes quiet in IMC or on top I have a good idea of exactly where lower terrain may be and is also a good help if diverting from a track which has an LSALT lower than, say, Grid LSALT. Needless to say, a good autopilot helps stop the juggling of pens charts and yoke!
All of this is still useful in twins, especially those with poor single engine performance (most of the GA fleet!), just a bit busier again - choose 20 nm markers or so.
Keeps you busier than you otherwise might need to be but nothing beats it for situational awareness... and on a clear day over familiar terrain - nah, I don't do it then.
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Hi there Mamakim,
Draw your track, add 10 mile markers and preselect 1 or 2 x-track features which cut your track like a river/road or powerlines.
Using your nav computer crossing one of the x-track features simply time the distance to the nearest 30 seconds and calculate your exact groundspeed. Easy to do with one hand.
The 10 mile markers can be used for a rough groundspeed and estimate at first though. If forecast h/wind is 20 kts and you're in a 120kt aircraft then groundspeed becomes 100kts ( 1.5 nm/min ). If you have a 20 kt t/w then your groundspeed becomes 140kts ( 2.5 nm/min ) etc.
Using the handy 10 nm markers you can simply estimate that:
10/1.5 = 10/3x2 = 6 mins
10/2.5 = 10/5x2 = 4 mins
Therefore you can estimate for planned track or a diversion and back it up with a x-track groundspeed check. Also if you're 5 miles left of track in 20 miles and it took 6 mins to fly 10 nm ( 60/5 = 12deg ) x 2 = 24 kts of wind from the right fwd quadrant. That way you know the direction and velocity to apply to subsequnt legs and 10 nm becomes the easiest way to calculate everything. I used to teach this method to Qantas cadets.
Hope it helps. Damo
Draw your track, add 10 mile markers and preselect 1 or 2 x-track features which cut your track like a river/road or powerlines.
Using your nav computer crossing one of the x-track features simply time the distance to the nearest 30 seconds and calculate your exact groundspeed. Easy to do with one hand.
The 10 mile markers can be used for a rough groundspeed and estimate at first though. If forecast h/wind is 20 kts and you're in a 120kt aircraft then groundspeed becomes 100kts ( 1.5 nm/min ). If you have a 20 kt t/w then your groundspeed becomes 140kts ( 2.5 nm/min ) etc.
Using the handy 10 nm markers you can simply estimate that:
10/1.5 = 10/3x2 = 6 mins
10/2.5 = 10/5x2 = 4 mins
Therefore you can estimate for planned track or a diversion and back it up with a x-track groundspeed check. Also if you're 5 miles left of track in 20 miles and it took 6 mins to fly 10 nm ( 60/5 = 12deg ) x 2 = 24 kts of wind from the right fwd quadrant. That way you know the direction and velocity to apply to subsequnt legs and 10 nm becomes the easiest way to calculate everything. I used to teach this method to Qantas cadets.
Hope it helps. Damo
But disco don't you operate dual gps ops at all times anyway? 
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Originally Posted by Jose Cuervo
As a working pilot, I think GPS has made manual navigation like this redundant.
I have ICUSed a few pilots recently, on extensive multi-stage routes, and a couple of them had absolutely no clue at all where they were when I failed the GPS on them. In one case, it took the ICUSee nearly 10 minutes - I kid you not -for him to find his position on the map, and that was after I'd pointed it out for him. Not a single line on a map, let alone markers, but he was inordinately proud of how neat and pristine his maps were due to complete lack of use.
I love GPS, and never go without it; it's still my main means of getting about. It can't be beaten when you've been dodging storms for the last two hours and you're 50 miles off track. But for god's sake, people, remember how to use a map, and have your route drawn on it. It takes about 20 seconds, and could save your sorry arse, if only from embarrassment.
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I was told to use 1/3, 2/3 and 1/2 markers - still use them today and work as a pilot in the Kimberly region - I still find that it helps with ETA revisions and the 1:60's which I still use to this day despite the fact that my little GPS works a treat.
I think its important to keep your skills up as you never know when your dooby will go clunk - at that point you wish you had your skills fine tuned. I don't take second chances and the flying school taught you these skills so put them to some use.
It only takes an extra 2-3 mins to draw these markers in so why not ehh.
I think its important to keep your skills up as you never know when your dooby will go clunk - at that point you wish you had your skills fine tuned. I don't take second chances and the flying school taught you these skills so put them to some use.
It only takes an extra 2-3 mins to draw these markers in so why not ehh.
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Quite right, if you lose your GPS, your radios, your ADF, your VOR receiver, then a map is a bloody good idea.
Of course if you are keeping a nav log up to date, finding your position in the event of complete navaid and radio failure is a doddle. Lines and markers on maps are for newly-minted CPLs who don't know any better.
One assumes that when you say "working pilot" you are referring to a single pilot banging around in a piston single or light twin... us "other" working pilots who fly bigger machinery probably haven't used a map in years (other than a radio nav chart).
Of course if you are keeping a nav log up to date, finding your position in the event of complete navaid and radio failure is a doddle. Lines and markers on maps are for newly-minted CPLs who don't know any better.
One assumes that when you say "working pilot" you are referring to a single pilot banging around in a piston single or light twin... us "other" working pilots who fly bigger machinery probably haven't used a map in years (other than a radio nav chart).
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Just to add my little bit, I visually navigate a little like transonic there. The GPS is nice to have, but I still have a line on my chart. In VFR, the GPS is used more to confirm my position than as a sole navigation device.
I too went through training drawing little 10 minute marks, but soon dumped that practise in favour of getting airborne without wasting a lot of time and looking out the window to see what was actually apparent on the ground. My navigation is a bit of a two way street. I look for surface features that match the line on the chart when I initially set the track, but after that I rely more on the reverse when I look for indications on the chart that match the surface features I see outside. I then revise my estimates, track, etc., based on those observations. I can still recite the distances to the tip of my index finger and thumb from various knuckle creases and skin folds.
The protractor was nice in training to get an accurate result that matched the examiner on the written exams, but in practice it disappeared into the bottom of my disused nav bag many, many years ago. You should be able to estimate tracks and courses within plus or minus 5 degrees and that is good enough for most VFR flying.
In marginal VFR, I rarely look at the GPS other than for an indication of the effects of wind. Otherwise, it's eyes mostly outside looking for prominent indications of position cross referenced with the chart folowing beaches, roads, railway lines, creeks, valleys, etc. The GPS in that situation is looked at very rarely. When you're dodging and weaving and looking for obstructions, gaps and openings through the murk, the GPS can be a distraction. It comes in handy later when conditions improve to get an accurate plot on the chart when I can sit back and enjoy the scenery again.
Having said that, there are a hundred and one ways to skin a cat.
I too went through training drawing little 10 minute marks, but soon dumped that practise in favour of getting airborne without wasting a lot of time and looking out the window to see what was actually apparent on the ground. My navigation is a bit of a two way street. I look for surface features that match the line on the chart when I initially set the track, but after that I rely more on the reverse when I look for indications on the chart that match the surface features I see outside. I then revise my estimates, track, etc., based on those observations. I can still recite the distances to the tip of my index finger and thumb from various knuckle creases and skin folds.
The protractor was nice in training to get an accurate result that matched the examiner on the written exams, but in practice it disappeared into the bottom of my disused nav bag many, many years ago. You should be able to estimate tracks and courses within plus or minus 5 degrees and that is good enough for most VFR flying.
In marginal VFR, I rarely look at the GPS other than for an indication of the effects of wind. Otherwise, it's eyes mostly outside looking for prominent indications of position cross referenced with the chart folowing beaches, roads, railway lines, creeks, valleys, etc. The GPS in that situation is looked at very rarely. When you're dodging and weaving and looking for obstructions, gaps and openings through the murk, the GPS can be a distraction. It comes in handy later when conditions improve to get an accurate plot on the chart when I can sit back and enjoy the scenery again.
Having said that, there are a hundred and one ways to skin a cat.
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Nothing I love more that to fly VFR with a new pilot who is constantly correcting their course by one or two degrees to line up with the GPS. 
Or when you call up somone to ask their estimate for somewhere and getting told (I am VFR I don't need an estimate)
I like to go back to basics.
PLAN Draw a line on your map, put the dist and track on your flight plan. Also place your markers (1/2 way, 10 NM etc). Get a forcast and calculate headings & time. (& Fuel endurance, reserves)
FLY - Set up your calculated course on that heading pick a point on the horizon and fly to that point.
The above process should be done for each flight. (Yes on familiar routes none of us do this process, we just follow the same features, nothing wrong with this either on a good day).
On maps you would use your marker be it 1/2 way, 10NM etc. to visually locate your track error and correct it. from this point you would pick a new heading and fly to a point in the distance.
With GPS I like to use the GPS to pick my track error early (if there is one >5 degrees). Then pick my new heading. Then fly to a point on the Horizon. I also like to put my ammended heading on to the flight plan along with my revised ETA.
Now I can look out the window and fly the aeroplane. I don't need to constantly look at the GPS. If in unfamiliar territory I can have a look at the map to be aware of my current position.
Or when you call up somone to ask their estimate for somewhere and getting told (I am VFR I don't need an estimate)
I like to go back to basics.
PLAN Draw a line on your map, put the dist and track on your flight plan. Also place your markers (1/2 way, 10 NM etc). Get a forcast and calculate headings & time. (& Fuel endurance, reserves)
FLY - Set up your calculated course on that heading pick a point on the horizon and fly to that point.
The above process should be done for each flight. (Yes on familiar routes none of us do this process, we just follow the same features, nothing wrong with this either on a good day).
On maps you would use your marker be it 1/2 way, 10NM etc. to visually locate your track error and correct it. from this point you would pick a new heading and fly to a point in the distance.
With GPS I like to use the GPS to pick my track error early (if there is one >5 degrees). Then pick my new heading. Then fly to a point on the Horizon. I also like to put my ammended heading on to the flight plan along with my revised ETA.
Now I can look out the window and fly the aeroplane. I don't need to constantly look at the GPS. If in unfamiliar territory I can have a look at the map to be aware of my current position.
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So a few more basic aviation skills go down the gurgler in favour of "new" technology.
I suppose someone will be asking how to use a prayer wheel next.
Disco Stu
I suppose someone will be asking how to use a prayer wheel next.
Disco Stu
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Originally Posted by scrambler
Nothing I love more that to fly VFR with a new pilot who is constantly correcting their course by one or two degrees to line up with the GPS.
Or when you call up somone to ask their estimate for somewhere and getting told (I am VFR I don't need an estimate.
Or when you call up somone to ask their estimate for somewhere and getting told (I am VFR I don't need an estimate.
And I love the inbound calls which give their position as 9.73nm east, circuit time 0135 and 28 seconds!
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Originally Posted by Disco Stu
So a few more basic aviation skills go down the gurgler in favour of "new" technology.
I suppose someone will be asking how to use a prayer wheel next.
Disco Stu
I suppose someone will be asking how to use a prayer wheel next.
Disco Stu