ATPL Flight Planning Subject - Why B727 Still??
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ATPL Flight Planning Subject - Why B727 Still??
Just wondering why the ATPL flight planning subject is still based on the B727? Is it a case that it doesn't really matter what aircraft it is done on, as this is purely a theoretical excercise to pass the exam and the Airlines will train you for how they want you to flight plan?
Yes.
The B727 has some idiosyncrasies that make it useful for exam purposes. To update the exams to a more widely used type (B737?) would require someone in CASA to create a new database of questions and the poor loves are far too busy with the regulatory reform program and creating new security licences to possibly spare any time on a project of dubious merit.
Ultimately as you say it has little to do with the "real world" but is a method of examining ability to study and pass a technical subject. It was never meant to prepare you to flight plan a B727 flight.
The B727 has some idiosyncrasies that make it useful for exam purposes. To update the exams to a more widely used type (B737?) would require someone in CASA to create a new database of questions and the poor loves are far too busy with the regulatory reform program and creating new security licences to possibly spare any time on a project of dubious merit.
Ultimately as you say it has little to do with the "real world" but is a method of examining ability to study and pass a technical subject. It was never meant to prepare you to flight plan a B727 flight.
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I agree!
They've always been about twenty years behind.
When I was doing my senior com my old man (a very senior captain with one of the Oz airlines) had a look at Nav and flight planning and couldn't believe the questions like mecator sailings and gyro precession.
He got 0% for half of one of them when he had a go.
They are just after speed and accuracy and are livin' in their glorious past.
They've always been about twenty years behind.
When I was doing my senior com my old man (a very senior captain with one of the Oz airlines) had a look at Nav and flight planning and couldn't believe the questions like mecator sailings and gyro precession.
He got 0% for half of one of them when he had a go.
They are just after speed and accuracy and are livin' in their glorious past.
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Why B727? Because CASA have been too lazy to change it.
How do I know?
The wise old aviator who taught me ATPL said he had compiled the updated B767 flight planning test material for CASA years ago to replace the B727.
He said
He said the same thing about the ATPL Flight Test, funnily enough.
...Disco
P.S He also said
How do I know?
The wise old aviator who taught me ATPL said he had compiled the updated B767 flight planning test material for CASA years ago to replace the B727.
He said
I'll be dead before they bring it in
...Disco
P.S He also said
mawgh, you blokes
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When I got my CPL in 1991 they were talking about going 767, so I thought I’D wait a little bit.
In 1995 when I did the ATPL subjects the 727 was still going strong, 2E PNR, DP PNR all that jazz and it made you think.
FAA Atpl had some questions based on 767 systems but nothing too deep….
JAA is a whole different kettle of fish, serious systems knowledge required however the nav was a piece of piss compared to Oz, lots of theoretical questions but very little real world relativity, PNR was all on track and either a decision to continue or return.
In my opinion the oz ATPL on the 727 was by far more realistic than any of the others, off track PNRs, multiple equi-time points, estimated mid zone weights. Basically a lot more like the real world, even if today I just expand the range and look for the nearest station on the ND
In 1995 when I did the ATPL subjects the 727 was still going strong, 2E PNR, DP PNR all that jazz and it made you think.
FAA Atpl had some questions based on 767 systems but nothing too deep….
JAA is a whole different kettle of fish, serious systems knowledge required however the nav was a piece of piss compared to Oz, lots of theoretical questions but very little real world relativity, PNR was all on track and either a decision to continue or return.
In my opinion the oz ATPL on the 727 was by far more realistic than any of the others, off track PNRs, multiple equi-time points, estimated mid zone weights. Basically a lot more like the real world, even if today I just expand the range and look for the nearest station on the ND
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Originally Posted by AllInGoodTime
Just wondering why the ATPL flight planning subject is still based on the B727? Is it a case that it doesn't really matter what aircraft it is done on, as this is purely a theoretical excercise to pass the exam and the Airlines will train you for how they want you to flight plan?
Airline pilots?
Flight planning?
I don't think so
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I think you are pretty close there Disco.
I don’t think it’s lazy.
They probably lost the answers from the B767 exam that your friend had set up and there is probably no one at CASA that knows how to set up a new exam.
I don’t think it’s lazy.
They probably lost the answers from the B767 exam that your friend had set up and there is probably no one at CASA that knows how to set up a new exam.
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After doing the Flight planning exam, i can see how the 727 is a forgiving aircraft in terms of flight planning... thats why they still use it today...
Plus the fact CASA couldnt organize a root in a brothel with a hand full of $50!!!!!
Aussie
Plus the fact CASA couldnt organize a root in a brothel with a hand full of $50!!!!!
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I have heard rumours that in about 2 years the ATPL flight planning exam will be based on the DHC-5 Buffalo. Its a slightly more modern aircraft than the 727 and will definately outperform any other aircraft in its class.
Cheers,
Tiger.
Cheers,
Tiger.
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The NZ ATPL flight planning exam does use 767s, but unfortunately their recommended study guide is the Trevor Thom 727 manual........ 
The book doesn't have anything about the computer-generated flight plans 
The book doesn't have anything about the computer-generated flight plans
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Originally Posted by Tiger 77
I have heard rumours that in about 2 years the ATPL flight planning exam will be based on the DHC-5 Buffalo. Its a slightly more modern aircraft than the 727 and will definately outperform any other aircraft in its class.
Cheers,
Tiger.
Cheers,
Tiger.
I think there's an element amongst pilots, as with most professions, that if they have had to go through needlessly difficult and arcane training or other experiences, then the next generation should suffer as much as they did. So I'm sure there would be plenty who would raise a big stink if the B727 crap went.
Plus CASA couldn't organise a root in a brewery. No hang on, I got that wrong...
