Wot's the latest with Gold Airways?
Fountain,
If it's some private matter, and thus "None of our business", why are YOU posting here?
You have come on and painted a rosy (tinted?) picture of the potential of Gold Airways, then got rather prissy when challenged over it.
Those of us who have been around this industry for a while (26 years!! God I'm old!!) have seen numerous dreamers/wannabees/two bit entrepreneurs come on the scene with grand schemes to be the next RMA or Hudson Fysh. Just a few, usually those that have found an unexploited niche and astutely filled it, have gone on to start viable businesses. Even fewer have become wealthy as a result.
The problem with the vast majority that either never get airborne,or, worse still, do so briefly, is that it doesn't happen in a vacuum, and naive people (as, I'm afraid, you present yourself to be) get caught up in the maelstrom.
Remember AAA airways (I suspect not!!). They were going to set the world on fire using clapped out DC 9s- Oh, and money invested by wannabees such as yourself. When reality finally kicked in money "Held in trust" had vanished into a convenient black hole and, far from "Having an opportunity for a career in an airline" people where left with their life savings gone.
Remember Monarch and Seaview? I knew the pilot of the Seaview Commander personally. He was a young, enthusiastic guy who wanted nothing more than to fly for a living. Because operators like those two drove down the costs by ignoring safety standards, pilots were denied the opportunity for a career in decent operations, and three who chose to work for them (and many Innocent passengers) had their dreams end in a smoking hole in the NSW country side and a watery grave.
The Australian domestic airline market is mature and growing incrementally. No new operator is going to significantly grow the market and produce lots of new jobs. The best they could hope (wish!) for is to take market share from the incumbents, reducing opportunities at the existing carriers.
If you are so keen for an airline career, why aren't you working for one of the existing airlines? Not that easy I know, but you have to realize that any chance given through the extremely remote chance of Gold getting up would come at the expense of someone else.
It's "Our business" because we've seen it all before and it's worth informing people of the history of the industry so they can make informed choices.
Oh..and don't come on Ppune without being willing to have your ideas robustly challenged!
If it's some private matter, and thus "None of our business", why are YOU posting here?
You have come on and painted a rosy (tinted?) picture of the potential of Gold Airways, then got rather prissy when challenged over it.
Those of us who have been around this industry for a while (26 years!! God I'm old!!) have seen numerous dreamers/wannabees/two bit entrepreneurs come on the scene with grand schemes to be the next RMA or Hudson Fysh. Just a few, usually those that have found an unexploited niche and astutely filled it, have gone on to start viable businesses. Even fewer have become wealthy as a result.
The problem with the vast majority that either never get airborne,or, worse still, do so briefly, is that it doesn't happen in a vacuum, and naive people (as, I'm afraid, you present yourself to be) get caught up in the maelstrom.
Remember AAA airways (I suspect not!!). They were going to set the world on fire using clapped out DC 9s- Oh, and money invested by wannabees such as yourself. When reality finally kicked in money "Held in trust" had vanished into a convenient black hole and, far from "Having an opportunity for a career in an airline" people where left with their life savings gone.
Remember Monarch and Seaview? I knew the pilot of the Seaview Commander personally. He was a young, enthusiastic guy who wanted nothing more than to fly for a living. Because operators like those two drove down the costs by ignoring safety standards, pilots were denied the opportunity for a career in decent operations, and three who chose to work for them (and many Innocent passengers) had their dreams end in a smoking hole in the NSW country side and a watery grave.
The Australian domestic airline market is mature and growing incrementally. No new operator is going to significantly grow the market and produce lots of new jobs. The best they could hope (wish!) for is to take market share from the incumbents, reducing opportunities at the existing carriers.
If you are so keen for an airline career, why aren't you working for one of the existing airlines? Not that easy I know, but you have to realize that any chance given through the extremely remote chance of Gold getting up would come at the expense of someone else.
It's "Our business" because we've seen it all before and it's worth informing people of the history of the industry so they can make informed choices.
Oh..and don't come on Ppune without being willing to have your ideas robustly challenged!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Under Cover
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seems to me that with all the planning that has and is going with this I reckon it will be a goer.
Certainly will be attractive for all those who have been ripped off and treated with contempt by the other two.
I know I'll support it big time.
Certainly will be attractive for all those who have been ripped off and treated with contempt by the other two.
I know I'll support it big time.
Seems to me that with all the planning that has and is going
Triple A Airlines
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well....its supposed to be a deregulated market....if Gold Airways has a better product then the current 2 or 3 really then it is entitled to find its own market...that is customers will fly with the airline they like best...that's called competition...
I suspect if it gets up, it will employ lots of ex Ansett people that who saw their careers ruined and have been denied opportunity to join the other airlines that were there....watching as new recruits were being employed and they were being left aside...
Branson didn't care that he was going to take market share from the incumbents when he brought Virgin here...neither did QF and VB care when Ansett folded...it was what's in it for them at the expence of the Ansett folk...I think Gold Airways has every right to start up if it wishes....
I suspect if it gets up, it will employ lots of ex Ansett people that who saw their careers ruined and have been denied opportunity to join the other airlines that were there....watching as new recruits were being employed and they were being left aside...
Branson didn't care that he was going to take market share from the incumbents when he brought Virgin here...neither did QF and VB care when Ansett folded...it was what's in it for them at the expence of the Ansett folk...I think Gold Airways has every right to start up if it wishes....
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree.
It seems to me that these people are doing what the other airlines didn't, planning ahead and being wise.
If what I read is true, its going to be a very passionate airline to work for and if it's true about the bloke behind it, I'd work for him any day. He seems to have what it takes to lead an airline through these challenging times. I am told he was one of TAA's top apprentices in the early 70s!!!! With that sort of background I feel completely safe in his hands as he'll get the job done properly. A mate of mine who works in SE Asia said this bloke recently solved an flight control problem over the phone to get a grounded A320 out of Sichuan Provence - apparently the airline was deeply indebted. Talk about talent!
With so much work already done in the planning, I would say an investor who doesn't treat this as the opportunity of a lifetime, has missed the boat.
If what I read is true, its going to be a very passionate airline to work for and if it's true about the bloke behind it, I'd work for him any day. He seems to have what it takes to lead an airline through these challenging times. I am told he was one of TAA's top apprentices in the early 70s!!!! With that sort of background I feel completely safe in his hands as he'll get the job done properly. A mate of mine who works in SE Asia said this bloke recently solved an flight control problem over the phone to get a grounded A320 out of Sichuan Provence - apparently the airline was deeply indebted. Talk about talent!
With so much work already done in the planning, I would say an investor who doesn't treat this as the opportunity of a lifetime, has missed the boat.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I can tell you that an enormous amount of work has been done...and the business plan is really something...however, it still doesn't mean that investors will just blindly rush in for the piece of the action...
That's why Dixon got Jet* going....to spoil the appetite for would be start ups and to get Qantas' costs down...so we may see 747's in QF colours and the rest in Jet*...because Jet* then can compete with VB and the other LCC's in Asia...
Be that as it may....Gold Airways will have to carve out a niche of its own...with the proper investment it will find its own market and not go for a land grab...passion there will be with the ex Ansett people, after all Ansett was the best product in its day and that will flow through in Gold Airways.....
If the bloke is the same as the one that solved the A320 problem in Sichuan I don't know and not sure if he worked for TAA...but he is a driving force with inputs from overseas for advice as well.....anyway we shall see....
That's why Dixon got Jet* going....to spoil the appetite for would be start ups and to get Qantas' costs down...so we may see 747's in QF colours and the rest in Jet*...because Jet* then can compete with VB and the other LCC's in Asia...
Be that as it may....Gold Airways will have to carve out a niche of its own...with the proper investment it will find its own market and not go for a land grab...passion there will be with the ex Ansett people, after all Ansett was the best product in its day and that will flow through in Gold Airways.....
If the bloke is the same as the one that solved the A320 problem in Sichuan I don't know and not sure if he worked for TAA...but he is a driving force with inputs from overseas for advice as well.....anyway we shall see....
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tell us more Fountain
Why is it that people are bagging this guy if he has all this support from overseas?? Are the lard heads on pprune jealous that he is popular amongst the peers???? I take my cap off to him.
Anyway, just reading the press reports about QF, it sounds like QF are in deep sh**t. The time would be right for Gold Airways to get into the market and if they had any brains link up with one of the Singaporian LCCs for immediate new markets.
Is Gold airways behind the Bankstown move?
Anyway, just reading the press reports about QF, it sounds like QF are in deep sh**t. The time would be right for Gold Airways to get into the market and if they had any brains link up with one of the Singaporian LCCs for immediate new markets.
Is Gold airways behind the Bankstown move?
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No...the pprune lard heads don't want their apple cart upset...they are content, and want it that way...
The Bankstown move...never heard of it...Links with other arlines from overseas...is a must....and the old addage...never say never, expect the un expected....great lesson learnt by ex Ansett people....
Nothing is forever...and Life is what happens when you are busy making plans... some good quotes....idiots that say.... that they have no money, aircraft, etc...are just that...idiots....
If Gold Airway gets up...it will be a bottler...a great airline with a great product...it will be its people that will make that way...there are no guarantees...but we are all hoping.....as we know that the product will be fantastic.......
The Bankstown move...never heard of it...Links with other arlines from overseas...is a must....and the old addage...never say never, expect the un expected....great lesson learnt by ex Ansett people....
Nothing is forever...and Life is what happens when you are busy making plans... some good quotes....idiots that say.... that they have no money, aircraft, etc...are just that...idiots....
If Gold Airway gets up...it will be a bottler...a great airline with a great product...it will be its people that will make that way...there are no guarantees...but we are all hoping.....as we know that the product will be fantastic.......
Fountain Pen I don't have any inside knowledge of Gold Air, but wish them well.
Your posts suggest that QF and VB were lacking in sympathy for Ansett; well I am afraid that is just the cut and thrust of business, and as I recall Ansett themselves weren't too sympathetic when both Compass carriers failed. A lot of people had dreams and plans destoyed by those failures too.
I'm pro competition, provided the playing field is level and fair. I also think it is now fairly well accepted that the Australian market cannot support umpteen carriers all competing for the same (comparatively) few punters. I wish all current and intending carriers well, but suspect that in 5 years from now the airline landscape in Australia will have changed very little.
Your posts suggest that QF and VB were lacking in sympathy for Ansett; well I am afraid that is just the cut and thrust of business, and as I recall Ansett themselves weren't too sympathetic when both Compass carriers failed. A lot of people had dreams and plans destoyed by those failures too.
I'm pro competition, provided the playing field is level and fair. I also think it is now fairly well accepted that the Australian market cannot support umpteen carriers all competing for the same (comparatively) few punters. I wish all current and intending carriers well, but suspect that in 5 years from now the airline landscape in Australia will have changed very little.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes well I understand....it was the same when Ansett, Australian, and Qantas was there...but it didn't stop Impulse and Virgin getting up....they didn't care....
If Dixon had his way there would only be Qantas...after all he keeps up about Lufthansa and Germany and really only one airline...but it isn't...as Germany is part of the EU which has a family of half a billion....
Should there only be Holden and Ford...they sure would be profitable then....I'm afraid you like competition...but also want a level playing field...what level playing field did Ansett have...when the Australian government conspired with the New Zealand governemnt in favour of Qantas and Air New Zealand...
What level playing field do the ex Ansett staff get....discrimination was rife, with also the help of that famous list from a pilots union of yester-year...there are still lots of guys out of work and can't get a look in.....
The aviation business is not geared to absorb 16,000 employees from a failed airline...yes I like level playing fields if it plays for my benefit as well....but its hard to swallow to see others benefiting because your company was desptroyed...its grossly unfair....
Gold Airways will go some way to give again opportunity to some excellent ex Ansett people that would give their right arm to be in an airline inviorment again which is being denied them now....
If Dixon had his way there would only be Qantas...after all he keeps up about Lufthansa and Germany and really only one airline...but it isn't...as Germany is part of the EU which has a family of half a billion....
Should there only be Holden and Ford...they sure would be profitable then....I'm afraid you like competition...but also want a level playing field...what level playing field did Ansett have...when the Australian government conspired with the New Zealand governemnt in favour of Qantas and Air New Zealand...
What level playing field do the ex Ansett staff get....discrimination was rife, with also the help of that famous list from a pilots union of yester-year...there are still lots of guys out of work and can't get a look in.....
The aviation business is not geared to absorb 16,000 employees from a failed airline...yes I like level playing fields if it plays for my benefit as well....but its hard to swallow to see others benefiting because your company was desptroyed...its grossly unfair....
Gold Airways will go some way to give again opportunity to some excellent ex Ansett people that would give their right arm to be in an airline inviorment again which is being denied them now....
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Fountain Pen
As I said before...the website is being updated...if you go there now you will see an explanation for the change...
We're making these changes because we think that our corporate internet and intranet website requirements are different to our promotional and booking engine websites.
heehee Booking engine?
Bit fanciful to have a booking engine when they do not even have a single jet engine!
Guest
Posts: n/a
And the point of your comment was what Fountain Pen?
I feel indifferent. Was just pointing out the fact that it is a little fanciful to have a website with online booking facilities, well before you even have a single aircraft to fulfill the bookings!
I first saw it almost a year ago. Still no aircraft!!
Kind of seems like a virtual reality airline game! Should keep some of the spotters amused!
I feel indifferent. Was just pointing out the fact that it is a little fanciful to have a website with online booking facilities, well before you even have a single aircraft to fulfill the bookings!
I first saw it almost a year ago. Still no aircraft!!
Kind of seems like a virtual reality airline game! Should keep some of the spotters amused!
Guest
Posts: n/a
On another note, some seem to think there are people posting here that WANT to see Gold Airways fail. I think the point has been missed. Nobody wants to see RMA GA fail.
They are simply pointing out that it's a tough market, plenty have come, tried and failed. Those that tried, came with wads of money. This guy has none. I work with several people that have worked with the guy behind RMA GA.... and they laugh everytime this subject is brought up.
Apophis... you are an Avalon guy aren't you? I am sure you would have crossed paths with mr Buche?
http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/...om=moreStories
They are simply pointing out that it's a tough market, plenty have come, tried and failed. Those that tried, came with wads of money. This guy has none. I work with several people that have worked with the guy behind RMA GA.... and they laugh everytime this subject is brought up.
Apophis... you are an Avalon guy aren't you? I am sure you would have crossed paths with mr Buche?
http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/...om=moreStories
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: earth
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not sure there are so many want to be,s at avalon i may have known him as something else the term Tosser comes to mind over 3 shifts and 4 hangars gold has as much hope of getting up as AVV has of ever doing 3rd party work.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My comment is this...that it is stupid to talk about that they have no jet engine and they talk about a booking engine....you know...I have a search engine but I don't have a jet engine....so what does a comment like that prove...
Yes....there is miriad of people out there in pprune land that don't want Gold Airways get up....they just want it all to themselves and don't want any other competition...this world is full of synics...and don't like to see others have a go and maybe succeed....
Just having a wad of money does not guarantee success....and you must think that people behind Gold Airways are total idiots that are going to throw money away on pipe dreams....I don't think so....
The article you attched is full of misleading information....its writen to make out that the guy behind Gold Airways is an accentric fool...its not the case...its no use saying any more.....its all a waste of time...
Just that if Gold Airways gets up or not then we will all know about it...and some will have smiles on their faces and others egg on theirs....
Yes....there is miriad of people out there in pprune land that don't want Gold Airways get up....they just want it all to themselves and don't want any other competition...this world is full of synics...and don't like to see others have a go and maybe succeed....
Just having a wad of money does not guarantee success....and you must think that people behind Gold Airways are total idiots that are going to throw money away on pipe dreams....I don't think so....
The article you attched is full of misleading information....its writen to make out that the guy behind Gold Airways is an accentric fool...its not the case...its no use saying any more.....its all a waste of time...
Just that if Gold Airways gets up or not then we will all know about it...and some will have smiles on their faces and others egg on theirs....
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well rmm..you could be right...yep he is from Ansett and yep he is driving a omni-bus at the moment...I don't know if he is a lazy eccentric fool though....it doesn't appear so...
He would be reticent to answer hard qustions especially on this forum...so would any person that is a bit on the in-knowledge....there is a stack that is confidential...so a lot of them can't say much except the obvious....
Of course we all have people we don't like etc...team tossers and other adjectives...well does it matter....there is no doubt that this is a very difficult project...its chances of getting up I would not like to put odds on....but you can never dismiss something like this...
So all I keep saying is we just have to wait and see...although I feel it has been taking a long time...in fact far to long...but these kind of projects can not just materialize so quickly unless you are Dixon and the resources of Qantas behind you to start Jet*....
VB owes its success to the failure of Ansett....it could not help but prosper...it was all there for the asking...it would have been a different story had SIA had control of Ansett...and that was Dixons only concern, that it did not happen....
He would be reticent to answer hard qustions especially on this forum...so would any person that is a bit on the in-knowledge....there is a stack that is confidential...so a lot of them can't say much except the obvious....
Of course we all have people we don't like etc...team tossers and other adjectives...well does it matter....there is no doubt that this is a very difficult project...its chances of getting up I would not like to put odds on....but you can never dismiss something like this...
So all I keep saying is we just have to wait and see...although I feel it has been taking a long time...in fact far to long...but these kind of projects can not just materialize so quickly unless you are Dixon and the resources of Qantas behind you to start Jet*....
VB owes its success to the failure of Ansett....it could not help but prosper...it was all there for the asking...it would have been a different story had SIA had control of Ansett...and that was Dixons only concern, that it did not happen....
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guys Guys ease up.
Listen if the Guy is doing a business plan and is in front of an invester does that make him an eccentric fool? He seems to be doing something right and from what I see on this thread, more than some of you jokers are able to muster support for. Well maybe you need to be eccentric in life to succeed where others have failed. What about all those eccentric fools who every year chuck in their pilots jobs to move on because the industry is full of Dickheads ???