SKYWEST A DEGREE.
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SKYWEST A DEGREE.
Just read something from an earlier thread. Is it true that Skywest require HSC in Physics but are actively persuing a policy to recruit degree holders?
I know its happening overseas but I always thought we put more emphasis on handling skills.
I know its happening overseas but I always thought we put more emphasis on handling skills.
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Originally Posted by ThoughtCrime
How much handling is involved in modern jets as opposed to other operational management tasks?
Its not just flying the aeroplane anymore.
Its not just flying the aeroplane anymore.
Degree a requirement.
The Maths & Physics requirements have been around for years.
However, it was only a matter of time before a degree became a requirement. It's happened overseas. In the US airlines and airforce it's a requirement, you will find most airline cadet schemes require cadets to have a tertiary education so why shouldn't it happen here?
Look upon it as a culling process. Young pilots joining will be in the right seat for years before obtaining a command, so thousands of hours of SINGLE pilot is no longer necessary.
Further it narrows down the recruiting process, with the gross oversupply of pilots we have, airlines could make it a basic requirement and will not have any trouble recruiting pilots of the right calibre. The days of the Year10 airline pilot are over.
However, it was only a matter of time before a degree became a requirement. It's happened overseas. In the US airlines and airforce it's a requirement, you will find most airline cadet schemes require cadets to have a tertiary education so why shouldn't it happen here?
Look upon it as a culling process. Young pilots joining will be in the right seat for years before obtaining a command, so thousands of hours of SINGLE pilot is no longer necessary.
Further it narrows down the recruiting process, with the gross oversupply of pilots we have, airlines could make it a basic requirement and will not have any trouble recruiting pilots of the right calibre. The days of the Year10 airline pilot are over.
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The requirement to have Year 12 and/or a degree has no bearing on a person's abilities to make a good pilot, any more than passing the QF psych and skills guarantees a better calibre of pilot for QF. I know plenty of excellent drivers out there who have neither. The only reason these operators insist on applicants meeting the additional criteria is... because they can. End of story.
(Incidentally, I passed psych & skills - so I am not providing the opinion of someone with a chip on his shoulder, but anyway that's by the by).
(Incidentally, I passed psych & skills - so I am not providing the opinion of someone with a chip on his shoulder, but anyway that's by the by).
I believe that Skywest have this as what you may call an unofficial requirement...unofficial for now.
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The days of the Year10 airline pilot are over.
It's a practical job to be done by practical people!
Unfortunately, it's usually the tossers that tool about in uni courses trying to re-invent the wheel that ultimately wind up in recruiting positions.
Young pilots joining will be in the right seat for years before obtaining a command, so thousands of hours of SINGLE pilot is no longer necessary.
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Instructor Rating Next.
So if they are going to persue Degree holders, I guess the next qualification will be an Instructor Rating requirement. I can see the thinking. These grads when they progress further on to commands and say training positions, will fullfill a CASA requirement of having an instructor background.
I believe that CASA requirement for an Instructor Rating qual is on its way for future Check/Training Capts.
I believe that CASA requirement for an Instructor Rating qual is on its way for future Check/Training Capts.
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Degree, InstructorRating,Twin Trg.
Oh boy! what's next? Soon it will be a specific degree like business or accountancy so that the pilots can understand the business end of things.
So if they can get pilots with a business degree or something similar,ATPL and Instructor rating with twin/IFR trg approval and say an unofficial age limit like they had in TAA of 27, they would have everything they want.
I guess I should have done a degree after all.
So if they can get pilots with a business degree or something similar,ATPL and Instructor rating with twin/IFR trg approval and say an unofficial age limit like they had in TAA of 27, they would have everything they want.
I guess I should have done a degree after all.
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You think?!!!! Look at all the air disasters that have been averted by "the right calibre" of pilot with his bollox uni degree!
It's a practical job to be done by practical people!
Unfortunately, it's usually the tossers that tool about in uni courses trying to re-invent the wheel that ultimately wind up in recruiting positions.
It's a practical job to be done by practical people!
Unfortunately, it's usually the tossers that tool about in uni courses trying to re-invent the wheel that ultimately wind up in recruiting positions.
Its just a matter of those who dont have one dont like the ones that do.
TC
I was talking about this to my instructor today and as he said how the bloody hell can a GA pilot afford to get a degree much less a student loan? then you will be paying it off untill your on a decent wage.
Is physics a MUST for Skywest?
Is physics a MUST for Skywest?
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Well for a time there Virgin Atlantic head of HR required pilots to have a Degree. I know a couple of pilots who had the type rating and the experience on type but missed out due not having the degree.
Hopefully she has moved on. Wasn't like that before she arrived.
Hopefully she has moved on. Wasn't like that before she arrived.
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I sure as hell know who I'd rather have sitting beside me on a s#@tty black night in Cairns! It isn't the uni genius that has never given him/herself a fright yet either!
Mr Buzzy i think a bit more knowledge and understanding of a topic is required if you are going to carry on with the outlandish statements like above. Those 'uni tossers' will be your boss soon enough, thats if they would want to employ someone so narrow minded.
At the end of the day i know which side of the degree/no degree fence i would prefer to be on.
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A degree is just like HSC. Another hoop. A degree will not help you pass a simulator assessment.
The selection process at most airlines is a remarkably practical thing. You get the chance to talk about yourself, show all your pretty certificates, answer some easy questions, talk about yourself some more, spruke on about your impressive CV and maybe even giggle about a few mutual acquaintances.
Once all this nice stuff is over and your ego is well and truely stroked, it's off to the simulator for an assessment. If you can't dance the dance, what good was all of your smooth talking?
Anybody read Yeager's book? No degree, no space program for Yeager. Anyone actually think Yeager is no good?
It is a practical job!
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The selection process at most airlines is a remarkably practical thing. You get the chance to talk about yourself, show all your pretty certificates, answer some easy questions, talk about yourself some more, spruke on about your impressive CV and maybe even giggle about a few mutual acquaintances.
Once all this nice stuff is over and your ego is well and truely stroked, it's off to the simulator for an assessment. If you can't dance the dance, what good was all of your smooth talking?
Anybody read Yeager's book? No degree, no space program for Yeager. Anyone actually think Yeager is no good?
It is a practical job!
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Nobody is saying a degree will help you pass a simulator assessment.
Or getting [Insert aircraft] in on a ****ty black night in Cairns.
It is a practical job, yes. However your example of Yeager just illustrates my point. I dont think "Stick and Rudder" (which he no doubt was incredible at) would have meant anything once out of the atmosphere!
To modify your example, I know who I'd much rather have with me in a damaged space shuttle on a decaying orbit. The degree qualified person who actually knows the nuts & bolts behind the nuts & bolts the whole thing is put together with!
Just look at Australasian Jet's Flight Crew Requirements.
I'll say again, Its not just flying the aeroplane anymore.
TC
Edit: Spelling and grammar
Or getting [Insert aircraft] in on a ****ty black night in Cairns.
It is a practical job, yes. However your example of Yeager just illustrates my point. I dont think "Stick and Rudder" (which he no doubt was incredible at) would have meant anything once out of the atmosphere!
To modify your example, I know who I'd much rather have with me in a damaged space shuttle on a decaying orbit. The degree qualified person who actually knows the nuts & bolts behind the nuts & bolts the whole thing is put together with!
Just look at Australasian Jet's Flight Crew Requirements.
Pilots with approximately 1500 hours total time and 500 hours of multi engine command are sourced for casual positions within the company. Pilot employment is not assessed on flying ability alone and experience in one or more of the following fields is an advantage:
• Quality assurance.
• Internal Auditing.
• Human factors, CRM.
• Computer literate and I.T experience.
• Safety Management.
• Fatigue Management.
• Aviation Management Degree.
• Document control.
Pilots who are looking for a career in aviation need to stand out from the crowd and in order to do this you need to specialise in something other than just flying the aircraft. Aviation is a very competitive industry (especially for pilots). Companies such as Australasian Jet employ enthusiastic, motivated and positive pilots who are multi skilled.
• Quality assurance.
• Internal Auditing.
• Human factors, CRM.
• Computer literate and I.T experience.
• Safety Management.
• Fatigue Management.
• Aviation Management Degree.
• Document control.
Pilots who are looking for a career in aviation need to stand out from the crowd and in order to do this you need to specialise in something other than just flying the aircraft. Aviation is a very competitive industry (especially for pilots). Companies such as Australasian Jet employ enthusiastic, motivated and positive pilots who are multi skilled.
TC
Edit: Spelling and grammar
Last edited by ThoughtCrime; 3rd Apr 2006 at 01:30.
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I'm not being critical of anyone wanting to further their education; difficult as it may seem, I have actually done some myself. I am just very critical of a company ( in Australia particularly ) that will regard flying experience as less important to an "Aviation Diploma or Degree"
It was touched on earlier, a degree is little more than a way to cull numbers and not to find the right person for the job.
If such training was deemed so important, why isn't it part of our regulator's syllabus?
Why can I hold an ATPL without a 4 year degree?
Why is an ATPL holder flying in command credited with almost 3 quarters of the degree course content?
From what I've seen, some of the guys with degrees, seem to have the most to say on how the company needs to be managed or run. This can become very tiresome after a few days of OPERATING AEROPLANES.
Resource management, human factors etc, all great stuff but please explain how writing your own GPS co-ordinate program, or knowing the nitty gritty of business accounting will help you size-up the best way safely approach Cairns on that same dark, angry night?
Sorry, I'd still rather have the bush pilot that has scared himself a few times beside me.
ThoughtCrime. I'm not suggesting that you are not doing it tough, or learning your art the hard way. In fact I have the highest respect for folks that can endure the GA dribble and still be motivated enough to study further. I just disagree with a certain companies policy in a location known for its "an@lness" to suddenly move the goalposts yet again for aspiring applicants. Particularly when many have well and truely done the years!
As far as Ausjets requirements go. Well it looks great on paper but keep in mind that they will also happily employ a 200 hour guy willing to sweep the hangar floor.
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It was touched on earlier, a degree is little more than a way to cull numbers and not to find the right person for the job.
If such training was deemed so important, why isn't it part of our regulator's syllabus?
Why can I hold an ATPL without a 4 year degree?
Why is an ATPL holder flying in command credited with almost 3 quarters of the degree course content?
From what I've seen, some of the guys with degrees, seem to have the most to say on how the company needs to be managed or run. This can become very tiresome after a few days of OPERATING AEROPLANES.
Resource management, human factors etc, all great stuff but please explain how writing your own GPS co-ordinate program, or knowing the nitty gritty of business accounting will help you size-up the best way safely approach Cairns on that same dark, angry night?
Sorry, I'd still rather have the bush pilot that has scared himself a few times beside me.
ThoughtCrime. I'm not suggesting that you are not doing it tough, or learning your art the hard way. In fact I have the highest respect for folks that can endure the GA dribble and still be motivated enough to study further. I just disagree with a certain companies policy in a location known for its "an@lness" to suddenly move the goalposts yet again for aspiring applicants. Particularly when many have well and truely done the years!
As far as Ausjets requirements go. Well it looks great on paper but keep in mind that they will also happily employ a 200 hour guy willing to sweep the hangar floor.
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Yep Buzzy you're on the money son ! These tossers who want to compare uni degrees with aviation experience are way off the mark.......I sure as sh*t know who I'd rather have beside me on that dark stormy night as well and it ain't Mr read all da books !!!
There is NO substitute for actual flying experience when the sh*t hits the fan ( same goes for most professions ) would you rather the bloke whose wet behind the ears, or the fella whose had 20 years experience on the job ?
I'm not against education/degrees/diplomas etc all are admirable, but NONE will ever be preferred over "hands on" experience !
There is NO substitute for actual flying experience when the sh*t hits the fan ( same goes for most professions ) would you rather the bloke whose wet behind the ears, or the fella whose had 20 years experience on the job ?
I'm not against education/degrees/diplomas etc all are admirable, but NONE will ever be preferred over "hands on" experience !
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I know many people with Degrees, and unfortunately you seem to require one more and more these days.
While some with Aviation Degrees have moved on to better things, the majority have worked shoulder to shoulder with me (without a degree) for the past ten years and are still in GA.
There are 5 people I taught who progressed REALLY quick into some awsome paying flying jobs (1 went onto a biz jet, but now all 5 are flying wide bodies) and a six pack if you can guess what they had a degree in..
Three in IT and
Two in Law.
As far as an Aviation degree goes I am with Mr Buzzy. I am glad I have three years practical experience over the bloke who started his Aviation degree at the same time. Practical experience is whats gonna stop you from hitting the hill
And to answer the original question... No, Skywest do not require a Degree and YES, they do require year 12 Maths, Physics and English
While some with Aviation Degrees have moved on to better things, the majority have worked shoulder to shoulder with me (without a degree) for the past ten years and are still in GA.
There are 5 people I taught who progressed REALLY quick into some awsome paying flying jobs (1 went onto a biz jet, but now all 5 are flying wide bodies) and a six pack if you can guess what they had a degree in..
Three in IT and
Two in Law.
As far as an Aviation degree goes I am with Mr Buzzy. I am glad I have three years practical experience over the bloke who started his Aviation degree at the same time. Practical experience is whats gonna stop you from hitting the hill
And to answer the original question... No, Skywest do not require a Degree and YES, they do require year 12 Maths, Physics and English