Company Ops Control
Company Ops Control
Recently, met put out the usual forecast that was the same as the actual. Less than a couple of hours later, dirty weather approaching - controller rings met and suggests strongly that they amend their forecast. This was done - first TTF had INTER, next TEMPO and next ALTN for Cat D.
Controllers passed TTFs to all acft within approx 90 mins of destination - our books say we only need to do 60mins, but most of us go out a bit further than that.
Weather got ****ty enough that one jet had to do missed approach from ILS. This was advised to other arriving traffic. One pilot advised he had enough fuel for a missed approach and then was committed to the next approach. Pleased to say he got in on the first approach. Pilot subsequently rang up complaining that the first he was aware of amended conditions was top of descent - he was approx 2 hours away when forecasts were amended. ATC providing operational control disappeared at least 10 years ago.
My question is, does your company (all of em QANTAS, Jetstar, Virgin etc) provide amended forecasts when more than 60 mins from destination? If not, do you listen to AERIS or request updates from Flightwatch?
Controllers passed TTFs to all acft within approx 90 mins of destination - our books say we only need to do 60mins, but most of us go out a bit further than that.
Weather got ****ty enough that one jet had to do missed approach from ILS. This was advised to other arriving traffic. One pilot advised he had enough fuel for a missed approach and then was committed to the next approach. Pleased to say he got in on the first approach. Pilot subsequently rang up complaining that the first he was aware of amended conditions was top of descent - he was approx 2 hours away when forecasts were amended. ATC providing operational control disappeared at least 10 years ago.
My question is, does your company (all of em QANTAS, Jetstar, Virgin etc) provide amended forecasts when more than 60 mins from destination? If not, do you listen to AERIS or request updates from Flightwatch?
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Somewhere near an airport
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For my lot, the PIC has the operational responsibility cap on, at all times.
He has the ability to call either yourselves, or either flightwatch or us on company HF. He can listen to the transmitted TTF message that burbles out on HF as per the documents as well when he's operating off shore.
The understanding of met with regards to the operation controllers that I work with, is vastly different than what you and I (I am ex AsA) have, and is pursued with little vigour. Notwithstanding that, as most of my company movements are regional AU or international ops to varied destinations, my only hope of contact would be through HF, and therein lies a problem - it (company HF) isn't listened to by him as a priority.
Personally .. I pass it on if I hear from them, (not much point of calling - they won't hear me and the selcal system is non operational, and the sat phone doesn't work in the air) .. or at least let them know there is a change to forecast conditions and see if they want me to share it with them. His call.
Your grumpy bloke was coming from where? Unless he was coming from outer timbucktu, surely he'd have to claim some responsibility for knowing what's going on ... 2 hours away and in the air .. he'd be a goose if he wasn't chasing an update.
He has the ability to call either yourselves, or either flightwatch or us on company HF. He can listen to the transmitted TTF message that burbles out on HF as per the documents as well when he's operating off shore.
The understanding of met with regards to the operation controllers that I work with, is vastly different than what you and I (I am ex AsA) have, and is pursued with little vigour. Notwithstanding that, as most of my company movements are regional AU or international ops to varied destinations, my only hope of contact would be through HF, and therein lies a problem - it (company HF) isn't listened to by him as a priority.
Personally .. I pass it on if I hear from them, (not much point of calling - they won't hear me and the selcal system is non operational, and the sat phone doesn't work in the air) .. or at least let them know there is a change to forecast conditions and see if they want me to share it with them. His call.
Your grumpy bloke was coming from where? Unless he was coming from outer timbucktu, surely he'd have to claim some responsibility for knowing what's going on ... 2 hours away and in the air .. he'd be a goose if he wasn't chasing an update.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: The Coast of Sunshine, Australia
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Weather/fltpln updates are the sole preserve of the operating crew, it is part of the OPERATIONAL CONTROL responsibility of the PIC.
Lets not fall into the trap many airline crews fall into and confuse the difference between OPERATIONS CONTROL and OPERATIONAL CONTROL.
The airline provides OPERATIONS Control, ie it says where and when its aircraft are to fly ie the timetable or preferred diversion ports etc. The PIC does so by exercising OPERATIONAL Control and doing so in a safe and compliant manner. If they can't, then they must refer to Operations Control to establish the companies preferred option.
Operations Control looks at the big picture (the whole airline) problems and solutions.
The PIC's Operational Control is only concerned with the operations of their individual aircraft.
Lets not add further to the confusion by thinking the flight following / flight dispatch system as used in Europe and the US of A is used in Australia, 'cos it's not.
Disco Stu
Lets not fall into the trap many airline crews fall into and confuse the difference between OPERATIONS CONTROL and OPERATIONAL CONTROL.
The airline provides OPERATIONS Control, ie it says where and when its aircraft are to fly ie the timetable or preferred diversion ports etc. The PIC does so by exercising OPERATIONAL Control and doing so in a safe and compliant manner. If they can't, then they must refer to Operations Control to establish the companies preferred option.
Operations Control looks at the big picture (the whole airline) problems and solutions.
The PIC's Operational Control is only concerned with the operations of their individual aircraft.
Lets not add further to the confusion by thinking the flight following / flight dispatch system as used in Europe and the US of A is used in Australia, 'cos it's not.
Disco Stu
