Is a Pilot shortage leading to GA crisis?
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I think the spate of airline expansion and recruitment has cleared out the senior GA drives and those companies are finding it harder to replace (and keep) those people. There are certainly examples around of younger drivers getting moved up at an earlier stage but for those companies with contract requirements the task is going to get harder.
This has been said before on a number of different threads but the day cannot be far off when CASA get a rush of blood and realise that 500 command M/E is no longer necessary to command an aircraft above 5,700 kg and airlines will begin to look at training requirements in the light of what they need rather than taking what they can get.
Just because generations of airline pilots have done their "hard yards" in the bush it doesn't mean it has to be done that way forever. Overseas experience is that airline training is a specialised area rather than a follow on from GA with emphasis being placed on multi-crew operation from the outset.
A former QANTAS C & T captain once explained to me that the company did not like to employ high time pilots as they had learnt too many bad habits that were expensive to remove. Airline specific training from the outset would remove such a need without the need to compromise standards.
This has been said before on a number of different threads but the day cannot be far off when CASA get a rush of blood and realise that 500 command M/E is no longer necessary to command an aircraft above 5,700 kg and airlines will begin to look at training requirements in the light of what they need rather than taking what they can get.
Just because generations of airline pilots have done their "hard yards" in the bush it doesn't mean it has to be done that way forever. Overseas experience is that airline training is a specialised area rather than a follow on from GA with emphasis being placed on multi-crew operation from the outset.
A former QANTAS C & T captain once explained to me that the company did not like to employ high time pilots as they had learnt too many bad habits that were expensive to remove. Airline specific training from the outset would remove such a need without the need to compromise standards.
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Well said Chimbu!!
Mandating a minimum academic standard for pilot training would only benefit civil aviation in the long run, although I concede it would hurt flying schools in the short term.
It's one reason (that, and the will to "scrub" people if they don't hack the pace) why the military can maintain standards in flying training.
Mandating a minimum academic standard for pilot training would only benefit civil aviation in the long run, although I concede it would hurt flying schools in the short term.
It's one reason (that, and the will to "scrub" people if they don't hack the pace) why the military can maintain standards in flying training.
Originally Posted by Captain Sand Dune
Well said Chimbu!!
Mandating a minimum academic standard for pilot training would only benefit civil aviation in the long run, although I concede it would hurt flying schools in the short term.
It's one reason (that, and the will to "scrub" people if they don't hack the pace) why the military can maintain standards in flying training.
Mandating a minimum academic standard for pilot training would only benefit civil aviation in the long run, although I concede it would hurt flying schools in the short term.
It's one reason (that, and the will to "scrub" people if they don't hack the pace) why the military can maintain standards in flying training.
I think the willingness to scrub people who demonstrate poor skills would be better.
Seasonally Adjusted
Originally Posted by slice
Charliethewonderdog - that's a wide spread there but I have to suspect that if they are finding it dificult to get qualified pilots (500 m/e etc.) it is because they are not actually looking very hard (ie beyond the resumes at the end of their desk!)
If all the multi engine requirements went out the window and instead, flying ability and interview processes were applied then I think that would prevent a pilot shortage for the short term. The multi engine requirements actually creates a glass ceiling in the industry and negates other experienced gained elsewhere such as SE Turbine/Choppers/FO time. If these requirements were gotten rid of I think you would find the talent pool opened up tremendously.
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No shortage where I am.
Every day I see at 2 to 3 really young guys coming in enquiring about jobs. Most often or not there are asked if they have a Grade 2 Instructor Rating or 25 hours in a fast single like a C210.
What I don't understand is how come in past years the RAAF converted pilot cadets after 15 hours on a Winjeel to a Macchi. The RAF experimented with jet flying right from the start and yet GA have all these requirements??
A very experienced retired airline pilot was heard saying that if a pilot was competent to obtain an MECIR on a twin he was more than competent to fly twin charter. His reasoning was that if an engine did fail on a light twin partly loaded the aircraft wouldnt fly anyway, because these aircraft are not certified to climb away after engine failure. Unlike the jets.
What I don't understand is how come in past years the RAAF converted pilot cadets after 15 hours on a Winjeel to a Macchi. The RAF experimented with jet flying right from the start and yet GA have all these requirements??
A very experienced retired airline pilot was heard saying that if a pilot was competent to obtain an MECIR on a twin he was more than competent to fly twin charter. His reasoning was that if an engine did fail on a light twin partly loaded the aircraft wouldnt fly anyway, because these aircraft are not certified to climb away after engine failure. Unlike the jets.
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Originally Posted by slice
Charliethewonderdog - that's a wide spread there but I have to suspect that if they are finding it dificult to get qualified pilots (500 m/e etc.) it is because they are not actually looking very hard (ie beyond the resumes at the end of their desk!)
Experience??
Wonderdog, perhaps the experience required by these companies are ridiculus. In the UK when I was going through. The requirement for a F27 command was 2000 hours.
I will concede though to obtain 2000 hours normally took about 3 years. In that time 3 winters of experience exposed one to fog, CAT1 approaches with no Flight Directors, icing conditions, de-icing procedures , operations into Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels just to name a few. So that after that time one had real experience.
However in Oz we rarely have any of the above and yet operators want thousands of hours. These charter companies want more experience than airlines require. It says a lot.
I will concede though to obtain 2000 hours normally took about 3 years. In that time 3 winters of experience exposed one to fog, CAT1 approaches with no Flight Directors, icing conditions, de-icing procedures , operations into Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels just to name a few. So that after that time one had real experience.
However in Oz we rarely have any of the above and yet operators want thousands of hours. These charter companies want more experience than airlines require. It says a lot.
Silly Old Git
However in Oz we rarely have any of the above and yet operators want thousands of hours. These charter companies want more experience than airlines require. It says a lot.
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What I don't understand is how come in past years the RAAF converted pilot cadets after 15 hours on a Winjeel to a Macchi.
2. Flying something faster and more complex assesses Bloggs ability to convert to a new aircraft type and consequently handle an increased rate of learning.
Flying fast jets be easy ya'll
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What I don't understand is how come in past years the RAAF converted pilot cadets after 15 hours on a Winjeel to a Macchi.
2. Flying something faster and more complex assesses Bloggs ability to convert to a new aircraft type and consequently handle an increased rate of learning.
3. Nowadays it's ~65 hours on the CT4B then ~120 on the PC9.
Flying fast jets be easy ya'll
Originally Posted by MBA747
Wonderdog, perhaps the experience required by these companies are ridiculus....
....However in Oz we rarely have any of the above and yet operators want thousands of hours. These charter companies want more experience than airlines require. It says a lot.
....However in Oz we rarely have any of the above and yet operators want thousands of hours. These charter companies want more experience than airlines require. It says a lot.
In so far as some GA operations go you'll find it is the client rather than the company that sets the minumum standard of pilots it will allow employed in their specific operations. The company is merely the conduit for the client (like large mining companies) to keep their FIFO operations at a level that will ensure a level of competency in involved aircrew, nothing more.
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GA crisis
GA has been seriously damaged by a flood of city slicker wannabies who believe they can use outback operations as a training ground for their airline career, and nothing more. The geniune bush pilots that this country seriously needs are being undercut by all these newbies, who have no intention of staying and learning how to do the job well. Many are working for little or no money.
Are these responsible peolpe who can be trusted with an airliner???
Do they really have a sense of responsibility???
Will they cosider the wellbeing of their airline the same as they considered the wellbeing of GA???
Are these responsible peolpe who can be trusted with an airliner???
Do they really have a sense of responsibility???
Will they cosider the wellbeing of their airline the same as they considered the wellbeing of GA???
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Bushy...the type you speak of will do OK when they get to that elusive airline job because they wont have to think for themselves. It is you who will have to deal with the fallout of their foray into GA.
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Will they
We already have to deal with the damage they have caused.
But I wonder if the Phsyc tests will reveal these traits.
Although I have observed some of GA's failures getting in.
But I wonder if the Phsyc tests will reveal these traits.
Although I have observed some of GA's failures getting in.
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Originally Posted by bushy
GA has been seriously damaged by a flood of city slicker wannabies who believe they can use outback operations as a training ground for their airline career, and nothing more. The geniune bush pilots that this country seriously needs are being undercut by all these newbies, who have no intention of staying and learning how to do the job well. Many are working for little or no money.
Are these responsible peolpe who can be trusted with an airliner???
Do they really have a sense of responsibility???
Will they cosider the wellbeing of their airline the same as they considered the wellbeing of GA???
Are these responsible peolpe who can be trusted with an airliner???
Do they really have a sense of responsibility???
Will they cosider the wellbeing of their airline the same as they considered the wellbeing of GA???
What Bushy won't admit, though, is that nobody in their right mind wants to spend the rest of their life living in a succession of astonishingly awful hot dusty mentally damaging outback sh1tholes, flying fcuked clapped out 35 year old (and increasing) pistons, being paid pittance at best. In the absence of a more stable, predictable career path, with more certainty, youngsters will use GA as a stepping stone.