QANTAS Singapore Basing
Quote: The name of the company they will work for is a problem (it cannot be Qantas) and this in turn leads to some problems UnQuote.
Why is that?
Superannuation? Yeah I wondered about that as well. Guess they will find a way around it. If you are in Division 3 (the DB Fund) I can't see a problem as that is only a 'promise to pay' when you finish up and therefore no money is actually changing hands so to speak whilst you are employed. Div 6 however (the accumulation scheme) might present a little problem. Nothing they can't circumvent in any case.
Quote : Not sure, but have also heard the length of time over there also comes into play when determining the eligibility for singapore tax (nasty rumour I heard but with no fact to back it up was you needed 3 years to get the best tax rate). UnQuote
Well you can discount that rumour straight away. If you are employed in Singapore, earning income in Singapore, residing in Singapore then you will be paying Singapore tax on THAT INCOME. If you have other income producing assets in Australia then you will pay tax on that to the ATO (even if you are a Non-Resident for Taxation purposes) That is why each invidiual circumstance is different and it is why there hasn't (to my knowledge anyway) been a 'broad brush' statement from the Company or AIPA regarding the tax position.
Why is that?
Superannuation? Yeah I wondered about that as well. Guess they will find a way around it. If you are in Division 3 (the DB Fund) I can't see a problem as that is only a 'promise to pay' when you finish up and therefore no money is actually changing hands so to speak whilst you are employed. Div 6 however (the accumulation scheme) might present a little problem. Nothing they can't circumvent in any case.
Quote : Not sure, but have also heard the length of time over there also comes into play when determining the eligibility for singapore tax (nasty rumour I heard but with no fact to back it up was you needed 3 years to get the best tax rate). UnQuote
Well you can discount that rumour straight away. If you are employed in Singapore, earning income in Singapore, residing in Singapore then you will be paying Singapore tax on THAT INCOME. If you have other income producing assets in Australia then you will pay tax on that to the ATO (even if you are a Non-Resident for Taxation purposes) That is why each invidiual circumstance is different and it is why there hasn't (to my knowledge anyway) been a 'broad brush' statement from the Company or AIPA regarding the tax position.
The other place where the saving for the Singapore basing is coming from that is being missed is that a syd-sin-syd pattern for an s/o is worth say 20 hours roughly. So by carrying one s/o instead of 2 to Singapore they have more efficient crewing of the airplane and the 20ish credit hours for the 2nd s/o goes into the europe flying. So if a syd-lhr-syd via singapore used to get 50 hours. a sin-lhr-sin might be worth say 35 hours (very rough figures) so every 2 europes a singapore based s/o does, half of it pays for itself in so far as the company doesn't have to pay the extra 20 hours as well. Sorry that should be every 4 europes as they still have to send one s/o to singapore (for now)! Follow? 
They may make a loss with the futher disengagement and de-motivation of the remaining s/o's though. Once it is fully established, only Joberg and LA will get pretty demoralising for crew that often get little or no imput. If only the old AIPA & Qantas could have negotiated 1 lhr a day or something similar like the cabin crew did it might have shown somebody gave a sh*t about the junior people. Hopefully this new AIPA with a united stance from all pilots can help maintain and improve conditions for everyone in the QF Group.
They may make a loss with the futher disengagement and de-motivation of the remaining s/o's though. Once it is fully established, only Joberg and LA will get pretty demoralising for crew that often get little or no imput. If only the old AIPA & Qantas could have negotiated 1 lhr a day or something similar like the cabin crew did it might have shown somebody gave a sh*t about the junior people. Hopefully this new AIPA with a united stance from all pilots can help maintain and improve conditions for everyone in the QF Group.
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Well here is something I was told recently.
According to someone who used to be on the company side in a management position, yet got a Christmas present.....And now flies the line.
The idea originally came from AIPA (BW and AM) the company looked at it, and offered one S/O to originate Sydney and fly the LHR and return, the second S/O would be picked up in Singapore. He could either be based there or... The company considered the new hire S/O losing paxing credits. They would pax up to Asia, operate to europe and return, then after the days off they would pax home!
According to my source, who was involved in the process the company never intended the basing it did in fact come from AIPA..
Knowing the parties concerned I believe that to be an accurate representation of the debate...I don't doubt it what a great thing for S/O's
The b*star$s
According to someone who used to be on the company side in a management position, yet got a Christmas present.....And now flies the line.
The idea originally came from AIPA (BW and AM) the company looked at it, and offered one S/O to originate Sydney and fly the LHR and return, the second S/O would be picked up in Singapore. He could either be based there or... The company considered the new hire S/O losing paxing credits. They would pax up to Asia, operate to europe and return, then after the days off they would pax home!
According to my source, who was involved in the process the company never intended the basing it did in fact come from AIPA..
Knowing the parties concerned I believe that to be an accurate representation of the debate...I don't doubt it what a great thing for S/O's
The b*star$s
Originally Posted by QFinsider
Well here is something I was told recently.
According to someone who used to be on the company side in a management position, yet got a Christmas present.....And now flies the line.
The idea originally came from AIPA (BW and AM) the company looked at it, and offered one S/O to originate Sydney and fly the LHR and return, the second S/O would be picked up in Singapore. He could either be based there or... The company considered the new hire S/O losing paxing credits. They would pax up to Asia, operate to europe and return, then after the days off they would pax home!
According to my source, who was involved in the process the company never intended the basing it did in fact come from AIPA..
Knowing the parties concerned I believe that to be an accurate representation of the debate...I don't doubt it what a great thing for S/O's
The b*star$s
According to someone who used to be on the company side in a management position, yet got a Christmas present.....And now flies the line.
The idea originally came from AIPA (BW and AM) the company looked at it, and offered one S/O to originate Sydney and fly the LHR and return, the second S/O would be picked up in Singapore. He could either be based there or... The company considered the new hire S/O losing paxing credits. They would pax up to Asia, operate to europe and return, then after the days off they would pax home!
According to my source, who was involved in the process the company never intended the basing it did in fact come from AIPA..
Knowing the parties concerned I believe that to be an accurate representation of the debate...I don't doubt it what a great thing for S/O's
The b*star$s
I challenge you to put that up on QREWROOM and have it tested.
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I understand the concern, the doubts...
I am not going to post it on crew room it is easy to work out who i am and where I heard it, but ask the oracle himself. He told crews present on the night..
Well if it was a fabrication then it is a fabrication, I wasn't there. This guy was. As a former senior management fella he was present at the meeting(s)with respect to the EBA.
Knowing both BW and AM I cant say unequivocally they didn't propose it...
Ask him
I am not going to post it on crew room it is easy to work out who i am and where I heard it, but ask the oracle himself. He told crews present on the night..
Well if it was a fabrication then it is a fabrication, I wasn't there. This guy was. As a former senior management fella he was present at the meeting(s)with respect to the EBA.
Knowing both BW and AM I cant say unequivocally they didn't propose it...
Ask him
I seem to recall (wish I could find it) your 'oracle' admitting that he wasn't involved in the EBA 7 negotiations.
What if BW, et al had proposed what you said. It is not part of the deal now so what is the point of your post?
What if BW, et al had proposed what you said. It is not part of the deal now so what is the point of your post?
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Other singapore factors
It is interesting to note the concerns here in this thread, Call me old fashioned but I would have thought the following would be of importance to the individuals whom are having to relocate...
If you are paid in Singapore and employed under local conditions in Singapore your Super in Aus will no longer have your contributions paid into it !!
If you are not employed by QF directly why should QF ever move you out of Singapore as they will enjoy the benefits of 3 million savings putting you there.
Is there any guarantee of a place in Aus ?
There is no Medicare or compulsory employer medical cover for employees whom earn over $2600 SGD per month in Singapore.
(Medical insurance for quality cover is about $400 SGD pre month. per person)
Will you be covered by workers comp if you are injured in the insane traffic travelling to and from the airport/place of work.
No such rules in Singapore...
Your power bill will be around $400 per month to run aircon so you can sleep during daylight hours.
Phone bill $150 per month if you plan on calling home and if you bring your other half with you can add to that figure.
$1000 to 1500 per month in taxi fares
add on $2500 per month rent and beer at $20 a jug minimum
$300 trip to super market, a regular event to purchase an insanely small amount of western food especially if you like to eat fruit and vegetables.
Cable TV and internet $150 per month
I am sure there are a few other expenses but they don’t spring to mind
I honestly believe all this will achieve is a whole new round of expats joining Singapore airlines.
Good luck to those whom have relocate
If you are paid in Singapore and employed under local conditions in Singapore your Super in Aus will no longer have your contributions paid into it !!
If you are not employed by QF directly why should QF ever move you out of Singapore as they will enjoy the benefits of 3 million savings putting you there.
Is there any guarantee of a place in Aus ?
There is no Medicare or compulsory employer medical cover for employees whom earn over $2600 SGD per month in Singapore.
(Medical insurance for quality cover is about $400 SGD pre month. per person)
Will you be covered by workers comp if you are injured in the insane traffic travelling to and from the airport/place of work.
No such rules in Singapore...
Your power bill will be around $400 per month to run aircon so you can sleep during daylight hours.
Phone bill $150 per month if you plan on calling home and if you bring your other half with you can add to that figure.
$1000 to 1500 per month in taxi fares
add on $2500 per month rent and beer at $20 a jug minimum
$300 trip to super market, a regular event to purchase an insanely small amount of western food especially if you like to eat fruit and vegetables.
Cable TV and internet $150 per month
I am sure there are a few other expenses but they don’t spring to mind
I honestly believe all this will achieve is a whole new round of expats joining Singapore airlines.
Good luck to those whom have relocate
Come on Bolty - you need to do a bit more research.
You will not be employed under 'local conditions' but rather a Letter of Agreement (LOA) attached to your Australian Certified Agreement. Your salary will be paid in Aust $$$ into a nominated Singapore account. Super is something that will need to be sorted, but I don't think QF will stop paying it.
Because you are employed under the Certified Agreement (as amended by the LOA)
Correct. You will not be eligible for Medicare if you are residing in Singapore. But then again you will not be paying Medicare levy either. So you could then afford private health cover. If you had private cover in Australia you could suspend that whilst you are overseas in order not to jeapordise your lifetime health cover committment.
You will be covered by the Personal Accident Scheme (PAS) whilst in Singapore. (According to the LOA)
I wont comment on your pricing for living expenses as they are for the individual except to acknowledge that some things can cost more than Aust.
However, 1200 - 1500 SGD on Taxis? Sounds like a lot considering you will probably be out of town for half the month. In any case, offset that against not running a motor vehicle in Aust.
Will it mean a flood of expats leaving QF to join SingAir. Well I don't think so. But good luck to them if they can get a better deal from SingAir. Might teach QF a lesson.
If you are paid in Singapore and employed under local conditions in Singapore your Super in Aus will no longer have your contributions paid into it !!
If you are not employed by QF directly why should QF ever move you out of Singapore as they will enjoy the benefits of 3 million savings putting you there.
Is there any guarantee of a place in Aus ?
Is there any guarantee of a place in Aus ?
There is no Medicare or compulsory employer medical cover for employees whom earn over $2600 SGD per month in Singapore.
(Medical insurance for quality cover is about $400 SGD pre month. per person)
(Medical insurance for quality cover is about $400 SGD pre month. per person)
Will you be covered by workers comp if you are injured in the insane traffic travelling to and from the airport/place of work.
No such rules in Singapore...
No such rules in Singapore...
I wont comment on your pricing for living expenses as they are for the individual except to acknowledge that some things can cost more than Aust.
However, 1200 - 1500 SGD on Taxis? Sounds like a lot considering you will probably be out of town for half the month. In any case, offset that against not running a motor vehicle in Aust.
Will it mean a flood of expats leaving QF to join SingAir. Well I don't think so. But good luck to them if they can get a better deal from SingAir. Might teach QF a lesson.
Typical living expenses in Singapore:
For a 1 bedroom unit, Upper East Coast Road area S$1500/month+ (popular aircrew area half way between Changi and the city. A taxi to the airport will be +-S$10 from here)
Unless travelling to/from work with luggage use the train or bus to get around. Excellent service, frequent, cheap, clean and safe. Forget owning a car, really.
For food eat in the hawker centres, good and cheap s$4 a meal. Eat as the locals do, if you insist on having exactly the same diet as at home you can but it will cost you.
Private school, reckon on S$10 000 per child per year, not cheap !
For phone calls get Skype or use calling cards, very cheap.
Alcohol very expensive, likewise tobacco and no duty free cigarette allowance for anyone so forget about stocking up abroad.
Income tax very cheap, expect to lose around 10% of you salary IF paying Sing income tax.
In short not for everyone especially if wife, kids and dog come into the equation. Best if young, single and flexible. Then expect a very good time.
For a 1 bedroom unit, Upper East Coast Road area S$1500/month+ (popular aircrew area half way between Changi and the city. A taxi to the airport will be +-S$10 from here)
Unless travelling to/from work with luggage use the train or bus to get around. Excellent service, frequent, cheap, clean and safe. Forget owning a car, really.
For food eat in the hawker centres, good and cheap s$4 a meal. Eat as the locals do, if you insist on having exactly the same diet as at home you can but it will cost you.
Private school, reckon on S$10 000 per child per year, not cheap !
For phone calls get Skype or use calling cards, very cheap.
Alcohol very expensive, likewise tobacco and no duty free cigarette allowance for anyone so forget about stocking up abroad.
Income tax very cheap, expect to lose around 10% of you salary IF paying Sing income tax.
In short not for everyone especially if wife, kids and dog come into the equation. Best if young, single and flexible. Then expect a very good time.
Interesting to see that the company is finally admitting that it is "highly unlikely the base will commence before July 2006".
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Metro Man, All
Where would you recommend someone with a family to live? We would prefer 3-4 bedrooms and do not mind living away from the city centre. Close proximity to transport, schools and shopping is also a strong preference. We would prefer to spend < S$2000 per month if possible.
Ta
Where would you recommend someone with a family to live? We would prefer 3-4 bedrooms and do not mind living away from the city centre. Close proximity to transport, schools and shopping is also a strong preference. We would prefer to spend < S$2000 per month if possible.
Ta
Hugh, for that sort of money you will definately need to be away from the city centre. Try http://www.singaporeexpats.com/ for some good information on Singapore property. Check your PMs
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Hugh Gorgon
Look at Bayshore Park an older block great ammenities but if you like to be near your kids schools that may dictate where you live.
Metro Man
Taxi fare $15 from airport..$10 each way from East coast to CHIMJES
East coast is a little lacking in Public transport as the MRT isnt close to the coastal condo's
If you are going to eat hawker stalls 100% I take my hat off to you.
You may as well eat burger king.
The food is great but heart attack material. Its great value but as any chinese man will tell you good things not cheap, cheap things not good.
Super market prices are higher depending on what you buy?
EG a packet of mixed lettuce leaf is $8 and fresh fruit n veg is a little dearer than syd.
Milk is $3.20 carton liter
Meat ..Beef is a similar price to Aus but lamb is export quality so its V dear.
But you can never get your whole shopping list from one store. Another taxi..
Phone calls.. Skype is a usefull tool so are calling cards but often have voice delay. You will use your phone
SpareMe
I have done my home work and I am only trying to pass on a few issues as I see them. I am not trying to scaremonger.
The reason I bring up medical is that few policies including car insurance cover any rehabilition after the accident included in the policy.
If the pilots can get super contibutions included in their package when employed under local conditions in Singa many managers around the QF group will be looking to do the same thing with their staff for when the question has been asked previously the answer has been a resounding NO.
A Certified Agreement
Look at Bayshore Park an older block great ammenities but if you like to be near your kids schools that may dictate where you live.
Metro Man
Taxi fare $15 from airport..$10 each way from East coast to CHIMJES
East coast is a little lacking in Public transport as the MRT isnt close to the coastal condo's
If you are going to eat hawker stalls 100% I take my hat off to you.
You may as well eat burger king.
The food is great but heart attack material. Its great value but as any chinese man will tell you good things not cheap, cheap things not good.
Super market prices are higher depending on what you buy?
EG a packet of mixed lettuce leaf is $8 and fresh fruit n veg is a little dearer than syd.
Milk is $3.20 carton liter
Meat ..Beef is a similar price to Aus but lamb is export quality so its V dear.
But you can never get your whole shopping list from one store. Another taxi..
Phone calls.. Skype is a usefull tool so are calling cards but often have voice delay. You will use your phone
SpareMe
I have done my home work and I am only trying to pass on a few issues as I see them. I am not trying to scaremonger.
The reason I bring up medical is that few policies including car insurance cover any rehabilition after the accident included in the policy.
If the pilots can get super contibutions included in their package when employed under local conditions in Singa many managers around the QF group will be looking to do the same thing with their staff for when the question has been asked previously the answer has been a resounding NO.
A Certified Agreement
If the pilots can get super contibutions included in their package when employed under local conditions in Singa many managers around the QF group will be looking to do the same thing with their staff for when the question has been asked previously the answer has been a resounding NO.
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SpareMe
When i use the term "local conditions" I used it incorrectly.
I was reffering to the fact that the SOs are going to be paid in Singapore under Singapore tax system
and still have contributions paid into their Aus superanuation.
This is something other departments have tried to include an been told no due to the cost.
If the pilots have cut this deal a few other departments will want to do same.
But if its not mentioned in your "certified agreement" the pilots may come to the same stumbling block.
When i use the term "local conditions" I used it incorrectly.
I was reffering to the fact that the SOs are going to be paid in Singapore under Singapore tax system
and still have contributions paid into their Aus superanuation.
This is something other departments have tried to include an been told no due to the cost.
If the pilots have cut this deal a few other departments will want to do same.
But if its not mentioned in your "certified agreement" the pilots may come to the same stumbling block.
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The QF Flt ops website has been updated with some material for those interested in the Singapore basing.
It does appear that the tax issue + the super issue has not yet been solved. Both have been addressed in a Q & A
It does appear that the tax issue + the super issue has not yet been solved. Both have been addressed in a Q & A
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Having read the update, there is plenty of QF speak.
Lots of unsaid.
There is no way that the base will be operational by 12 June.
There is a distinct possibility that those poor buggers assigned prior to the EBA even being voted on will escape it! (which i hope)
I think for our much berated professional S/O's (yes I was one) there may be a little european flying for a few more bid periods.
I hope "manager projects Singapore basing" doesn't cop it for the thing being a pup....Mind you managers never do in QF
Lots of unsaid.
There is no way that the base will be operational by 12 June.
There is a distinct possibility that those poor buggers assigned prior to the EBA even being voted on will escape it! (which i hope)
I think for our much berated professional S/O's (yes I was one) there may be a little european flying for a few more bid periods.
I hope "manager projects Singapore basing" doesn't cop it for the thing being a pup....Mind you managers never do in QF
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The deal so far is that unless you divest all of your Australian interests, including memberships to clubs etc, the ATO considers you still a resident. Therefore you are up for both Australian and Singapore tax. So if you are on say $120,000 bang goes $18,000 in Sing tax, and about $55,000 to Australia. Then to educate the two kids is another $50,000 per year. Therefore you are already $3,000 into your savings and you haven't even considered living expenses. It might be okay of you're single. It even makes the Jetstar deal look really good.