When can you not be "visual" under the VFR?
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When can you not be "visual" under the VFR?
A quick question for all you controllers out there. Several times recently, in class "C" terminal airspace, the approach controller has issued instructions to"Turn left/right xxx degrees visual" or "climb to xxxx feet visual" and not been satisfied when my student has not read back the "visual" instruction.
My question is; how can you not carry out the instruction to turn, climb etc. without remaining "visual" if you are flying under the Visual Flight Rules. To become "not visual" would be a breach of the regulations surely.
While I am aware of the necessity for such an instruction for the IFR pilot and the need to obtain their acknowledgement of the instruction, surely it is a redundancy to instruct a Visual Flight Rules pilot to remain "visual".
I would welcome any enlightenment that can be offered in a spirit of enhancing my undertanding; Thanks.
My question is; how can you not carry out the instruction to turn, climb etc. without remaining "visual" if you are flying under the Visual Flight Rules. To become "not visual" would be a breach of the regulations surely.
While I am aware of the necessity for such an instruction for the IFR pilot and the need to obtain their acknowledgement of the instruction, surely it is a redundancy to instruct a Visual Flight Rules pilot to remain "visual".
I would welcome any enlightenment that can be offered in a spirit of enhancing my undertanding; Thanks.
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Hi Ravan,
Good question. Put simply, the use of the term 'visual' in this instance is not a reference to your in-flight conditions but rather an assignment of responsibility for terrain clearance from the controller to the pilot.
Whenever we give a vector below LSALT (normally Minimum Vectoring Altitude (MVA) from our Radar terrain Clearance Chart (RTCC)) to a VFR aircraft or an IFR aircraft in VMC, we need to ensure you are aware that, even though we require you to fly the heading, you are actually responsible for terrain clearance.
Typically you would get this as part of a departure instruction (eg ABC maintain runway heading VISUAL, climb to five thousand, cleared for take-off).
As a technique, I insist on the word visual being read back by the pilot.
Hope that helps. Let me know and I'll post the relevant bits of AIP/MATS.
Good question. Put simply, the use of the term 'visual' in this instance is not a reference to your in-flight conditions but rather an assignment of responsibility for terrain clearance from the controller to the pilot.
Whenever we give a vector below LSALT (normally Minimum Vectoring Altitude (MVA) from our Radar terrain Clearance Chart (RTCC)) to a VFR aircraft or an IFR aircraft in VMC, we need to ensure you are aware that, even though we require you to fly the heading, you are actually responsible for terrain clearance.
Typically you would get this as part of a departure instruction (eg ABC maintain runway heading VISUAL, climb to five thousand, cleared for take-off).
As a technique, I insist on the word visual being read back by the pilot.
Hope that helps. Let me know and I'll post the relevant bits of AIP/MATS.
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G'day Ravan,
When an ATC gives a heading instruction, the controller is assuming both navigation and terrain clearace responsibilities from the pilot. MATS says:
Even a VFR aircraft has to be told to turn/climb/descend visually if the controller is vectoring them below the radar LASLT. Another example is if you are being vectored off the runway on departure, the TWR will say "Turn left heading XXX visual, cleared for take off" as ATC is taking responsibility for terrain clearance by vectoring you, and then handing it back to you.
Sounds confusing, but if the controller says VISUAL, the just read it back and be done with it. It generally does mean something. I'm sure AIP has a similar explanation.
Cheers,
NFR.
When an ATC gives a heading instruction, the controller is assuming both navigation and terrain clearace responsibilities from the pilot. MATS says:
3.2.6.6 An aircraft being radar vectored in VMC by day may be permitted to
arrange its own terrain clearance, provided that the responsibility is specifically
assigned to the pilot using the phrase “DESCEND TO (level) / CLIMB TO (level) /
TURN RIGHT / LEFT HEADING (degrees) / VISUAL”.
arrange its own terrain clearance, provided that the responsibility is specifically
assigned to the pilot using the phrase “DESCEND TO (level) / CLIMB TO (level) /
TURN RIGHT / LEFT HEADING (degrees) / VISUAL”.
Sounds confusing, but if the controller says VISUAL, the just read it back and be done with it. It generally does mean something. I'm sure AIP has a similar explanation.
Cheers,
NFR.
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Boffinville has decreed that the pilot, of any aircraft being vectored below the Minimum Vectoring Altitude, be absolutely aware that terrain and obstacle clearance is his responsibility.
Mostly, this should apply to a take-off clearance, or vectoring into the circuit
So, as MATS Part 6, Annex 6-12 says
the phrase used is
or
then it's
If we don't say this you'll deliberately fly into ground to spite us.
CG
Mostly, this should apply to a take-off clearance, or vectoring into the circuit
So, as MATS Part 6, Annex 6-12 says
when a VFR aircraft, or an IFR aircraft is cleared for a visual departure, is issued radar heading instructions
MAINTAIN RUNWAY HEADING/TURN RIGHT/LEFT HEADING (degrees) VISUAL CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF
When an aircraft is issued a radar heading instruction below the MVA or MSA/LSALT
TURN LEFT (or RIGHT) (number) DEGREES or HEADING (three digits) VISUAL
CG
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Hi Ravan,
I must admit I am a bit surprised that as an instructor you are asking the meaning of "climb or descend visual". It is very elementry but crucial stuff.
Also a basic understanding of readback requirements is required by all pilots let alone an instructor. I suggest you have a good read of all of the AIP. If you dont know the meaning of this stuff maybe there is more info in there you need to brush up on? Its all pretty clear when you talk the time to read it slowly and think about what it says.
Not trying to give you a hard time but these questions should not be asked by a proffesional flight instructor, training the pilots of tomorrow.
Yours respectively,
Bulla
I must admit I am a bit surprised that as an instructor you are asking the meaning of "climb or descend visual". It is very elementry but crucial stuff.
Also a basic understanding of readback requirements is required by all pilots let alone an instructor. I suggest you have a good read of all of the AIP. If you dont know the meaning of this stuff maybe there is more info in there you need to brush up on? Its all pretty clear when you talk the time to read it slowly and think about what it says.
Not trying to give you a hard time but these questions should not be asked by a proffesional flight instructor, training the pilots of tomorrow.
Yours respectively,
Bulla
