Air Nelson
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PB bro just love hunting anything in the bush 
Good luck to the fellas in Air Nelson the Dash is beaut to operate. Does the Saab have over torque protection? As it is sooooo easy to do on the Dash.
Good luck to the fellas in Air Nelson the Dash is beaut to operate. Does the Saab have over torque protection? As it is sooooo easy to do on the Dash.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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torque protection?
Not so silly a question...
Dash only has it as a backup during the autofeather sequence, if the Np underspeed governing cancel signal from the SCU fails to be sent to the ECU.
It happens at 120% from memory and is via the torque gauge....
Oh bugga, I realised Waka was asking about the SAAB.
Dash only has it as a backup during the autofeather sequence, if the Np underspeed governing cancel signal from the SCU fails to be sent to the ECU.
It happens at 120% from memory and is via the torque gauge....
Oh bugga, I realised Waka was asking about the SAAB.
Not that I totally disagree with your last post MOR, but you have to give some credit towards RELEVANT experience. You mentioned quality, and I agree entirely, but I wouldn't be in a hurry to disregard the experience of the company F/O as not having some quality.
The F/O's experience is relevant, i.e. is current, is specific, is SOP. I would anticipate the Euro Jet skipper might have ideas of his own, and basically run a non-SOP operation.
It's a little hard to put this one on paper without winding through too much waffle, particularly as I agree that it is a waste not to utilise experience when it is available. I would find myself agreeing with both arguments. Thats why it would come down to individual cases and the merits of each.
I just don't think it is quite as black and white as you suggest.
The F/O's experience is relevant, i.e. is current, is specific, is SOP. I would anticipate the Euro Jet skipper might have ideas of his own, and basically run a non-SOP operation.
It's a little hard to put this one on paper without winding through too much waffle, particularly as I agree that it is a waste not to utilise experience when it is available. I would find myself agreeing with both arguments. Thats why it would come down to individual cases and the merits of each.
I just don't think it is quite as black and white as you suggest.
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Air Nelson (and Eagle) are just members of the Koru club guys..don't you think any hiring policy would stem from further up the chain..there might even be a "system" in place after last years feeding frenzy!?
Join Date: Feb 2004
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I don't think so. The recruitment processes are completely different across the link airlines. How else could you explain the number of people who have missed out with Eagle only to be taken on by Air Nelson? Each airline is largely responsible for it's own operations (including recruitment). As long as things are done within the realms of reasonableness, I doubt big brother has much input in these areas.
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It is, sadly, the story of NZ aviation, from the CAA ("we are the only ones that know anything about aviation"), ...
(The point I'm making is that every CAA is nepotistic in its own way. For a variety of reasons, some good, some not. Life is short, get a job you like in a place whose nepotism you can tolerate.)
Last edited by Oktas8; 27th Feb 2006 at 08:33. Reason: change "aviation" to "CAA"
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As a fellow Kiwi currently flying nice shiney jets around Europe I partially agree with MOR and Haughty. I don't see why my experience flying both long haul and short haul jets in the northern hemisphere should preclude me from being treated in the same way as every other applicant. I am quite willing to go through the interview process just like everyone else and could accept not getting a job offer because they think I am a w**ker. What I do object to is this completely rediculous requirement to have 50 hours recent IFR flying in NZ. I have instrument flying experience from many different countries encounted over the last few years, and although each has its differences none would warrant this sort of extra 'training' to enable me to operate safely. Just to make it clear, I think it is fair enough that I apply like everyone else and if selected serve my time in the right hand seat just like everyone else. Where I disagree with MOR is the 'quality of hours' statement, although different, working your way up through GA is just as valuable as flying the jet. I feel an FO who has been in the company for x number of years if far better placed for the command than I would be, as he is current and SOP where as I would be learning new SOP's and although I have 2000 hours on the Dash 8 2/3/400 it is now a distant memory and would take time to get back into the swing of things. Please just don't penalise me because I took the huge gamble of spending every penny I had to uproot my family across the world to both gain experience and travel.
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Well said AH agree with you. Just could not see flying full time no pay on the dole and working in a Pub two nights a week just to make limited ends meet. It is a risky expensive gamble coming to Europe and I have been extremely lucky. But to think that too live in Napier and fly for Air Nelson I better get a job with GBA first just to meet requirements is outstanding!!!
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You know guys..Ive come to the conclusion..its their loss, not mine. Possibly thats a little arrogant..but hey so what? There are jobs to be had at the moment so we can afford to be picky(to get the right job)
Mayby its time to buy that second home in NZ.....rent it out..and build a bloody big nest egg for my retirement in about 30yrs or so?
Air Nsn if your'e listening..I am available (for the right price..and only if you invest in some turbo-fan technology ) Goodluck to all you guys getting in for the first time....I hope you keep an open mind to all us Ex pats who broke the faith and jumped the queue (only cos I couldnt afford to work for 5yrs for next to nothing)
P.S. Got told today from a Cathay skipper that they are DESPERATELY short
Mayby its time to buy that second home in NZ.....rent it out..and build a bloody big nest egg for my retirement in about 30yrs or so?
Air Nsn if your'e listening..I am available (for the right price..and only if you invest in some turbo-fan technology
) Goodluck to all you guys getting in for the first time....I hope you keep an open mind to all us Ex pats who broke the faith and jumped the queue (only cos I couldnt afford to work for 5yrs for next to nothing)P.S. Got told today from a Cathay skipper that they are DESPERATELY short
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Nike and Artificial Horizon
It is the mark of a professional pilot that you always use the SOPs of the company you work for. I don't think the Euro skipper would have any ideas of his own, any more than a Kiwi F/O would revert to single-pilot mode (because the bulk of his experience is probably single-pilot). The problem of reversion is complex, but it has been shown that reverting to single-pilot (ie not using your crew in moments of stress) is more dangerous than reverting to a different SOP, which is still safe, even if it is different.
But you are right, it isn't black and white, and of course some value should be placed on currency and familiarity with SOPs. However, people shouldn't be excluded because they haven't got 50 hours recent NZ IF, either.
Haughtney1
I absolutely agree.
The F/O's experience is relevant, i.e. is current, is specific, is SOP. I would anticipate the Euro Jet skipper might have ideas of his own, and basically run a non-SOP operation.
But you are right, it isn't black and white, and of course some value should be placed on currency and familiarity with SOPs. However, people shouldn't be excluded because they haven't got 50 hours recent NZ IF, either.
Haughtney1
I absolutely agree.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Come on guys and girls this whole 50 IFR argument is getting really bloody old!
Think when you were told this and how long ago it was, i bet things have changed. Also seniority system is the way NZ runs it may not seem fair, but when in rome do as the romans do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You could perhaps for a second take a look in the mirror, I'm not trying to insult anybody because i don't know the circumstances but airlines have been known to come up with silly requirements like this as i nice way to say they don't like you
Lastly you could consider trying other companies Eag, Cook, Chats ect ect who might just welcome your experience.
All I'm trying to say is yes it may suck be Jesus H Christ get over it
Think when you were told this and how long ago it was, i bet things have changed. Also seniority system is the way NZ runs it may not seem fair, but when in rome do as the romans do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You could perhaps for a second take a look in the mirror, I'm not trying to insult anybody because i don't know the circumstances but airlines have been known to come up with silly requirements like this as i nice way to say they don't like you
Lastly you could consider trying other companies Eag, Cook, Chats ect ect who might just welcome your experience.All I'm trying to say is yes it may suck be Jesus H Christ get over it
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nice way to say they don't like you
Also, I think you will find that we are all "over it", and have been for some time. However, this sort of nonsense needs to be exposed for what it really is. You young guys coming up through the system "the hard way" are doing so because of outdated, protectionist attitudes. Your progression, and career options, would be a lot better in a more sensible environment.
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Yes true MOR, but is it necessary to bring it up in every thread???????????
We all know it goes on and we all know some of the attitudes. I think you might also find instead of knocking the younger fellas/fellessesssssss go and talk to them and you will realise there attitudes are some what different to what you believe they are and therefore attitudes in the next 5-10 years will change along with them.
Lastly I'm sure not every airline you rang in NZ said this to you, or is flying a beech or metro a little below you? (question not a dig)
We all know it goes on and we all know some of the attitudes. I think you might also find instead of knocking the younger fellas/fellessesssssss go and talk to them and you will realise there attitudes are some what different to what you believe they are and therefore attitudes in the next 5-10 years will change along with them.
Lastly I'm sure not every airline you rang in NZ said this to you, or is flying a beech or metro a little below you? (question not a dig)
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I think you must have misunderstood me Hanz Blix
I'm not knocking the young folk, merely commiserating with them - they inherit this stuff, it isn't their fault.
As far as ringing airlines, I haven't bothered for quite some time. I don't really care what I fly, probably the most fun I had in the airline world was poling around in F27s with no autopilots. Much more fun than flying auto-jets.
I haven't bothered because I knew I would end up at the bottom of the heap, with miserable pay and little in the way of promotion for some years to come. It just isn't worth it financially, I can make four times as much working from home. I knew that when I came back from Europe, so I didn't even bother going through the motions.
That doesn't mean that the attitudes that have effectively ended my NZ flying career aren't a load of bull. They are, and they need to be exposed as such.
Can you imagine Microsoft starting an advanced programmer on the helpdesk? Of course not, they recognise the skills and put the new hire where he or she belongs in the structure. They recognise that those skills and experience have taken years to accumulate, and have value to the organisation. They also understand that if they give the new guy work that is below his experience level, he will probably get bored and start making mistakes.
NZ aviation is probably the only place where such outdated attitudes persist. It's like a glimpse of the dark ages.
For my part, if I want to fly, I just go back to Europe on a short-term contract. I am always employed as a captain, I get paid many times what I would here, and I don't have to endure this nonsense.
I'm not knocking the young folk, merely commiserating with them - they inherit this stuff, it isn't their fault.
As far as ringing airlines, I haven't bothered for quite some time. I don't really care what I fly, probably the most fun I had in the airline world was poling around in F27s with no autopilots. Much more fun than flying auto-jets.
I haven't bothered because I knew I would end up at the bottom of the heap, with miserable pay and little in the way of promotion for some years to come. It just isn't worth it financially, I can make four times as much working from home. I knew that when I came back from Europe, so I didn't even bother going through the motions.
That doesn't mean that the attitudes that have effectively ended my NZ flying career aren't a load of bull. They are, and they need to be exposed as such.
Can you imagine Microsoft starting an advanced programmer on the helpdesk? Of course not, they recognise the skills and put the new hire where he or she belongs in the structure. They recognise that those skills and experience have taken years to accumulate, and have value to the organisation. They also understand that if they give the new guy work that is below his experience level, he will probably get bored and start making mistakes.
NZ aviation is probably the only place where such outdated attitudes persist. It's like a glimpse of the dark ages.
For my part, if I want to fly, I just go back to Europe on a short-term contract. I am always employed as a captain, I get paid many times what I would here, and I don't have to endure this nonsense.
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Like the idea MOR particularly about Captains contracts and picking and choosing what you want to do. Have come to the conclusion can still work for my crowd and live in NZ and just commute your only working 9 and half months of the year anyway. Get the best of both worlds. We have 5 guys already living in NZ and one is short haul on the bus. Your in a good position to be in MOR but not so many RJ/146 kicking around unless you like the Swiss
tells you who I talk to...