CASA medical fee hike
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CASA medical fee hike
I received the following rhetoric from CASA in response to my protest on the new medical fee hike.
I have added my opinion on a few of the points marked by ((((())))) - couldn't get font colour to change to make it easier!
Am I way off and on my own with my responses? Keen to know.
It reads:
Dear xxxxx
From 1 January 2006, a suite of new and increased charges apply to Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) regulatory services, with many charged at hourly rate to reflect the work required of CASA.
The change in fees follows the Australian Government’s decision on funding levels for CASA as part of a Long Term Funding Strategy (LTFS) that aims to deliver sustainable funding arrangements and certainty for both the aviation safety regulator and industry. Even after the new charges take effect, direct cost recovery will only contribute a small share of CASA’s total income – from around 5 per cent in 2004-05 to nine per cent this financial year and to around sixteen per cent in 2008-09. Fee income is to gradually rise from $5 million in 2004-05 to $10.5 million in 2005-06 and eventually to $20 million in 2008-09, being partially offset by a $5 million fall in fuel excise in 2008-09.
CASA’s cost recovery is designed to partially or fully recover the costs of providing consumer based services and activities as opposed to a flat tax or levy which are set independently of the cost of provision. Some of the guiding principles include only implementing cost recovery when it is cost effective to do so and ensuring that charges only relate to the costs of providing the services, rather than indirect costs such as policy functions.
One of the new fees is for medical certification. There is a fixed fee of $130 for the processing and consideration of an application for the issue or renewal of a medical certificate. This figure represents an average of an hour's work by CASA on this task, and as for the CASA hourly rate, includes all overheads associated with the provision of an hour's labour by CASA.
(((((The cost for my medical was $90. So it takes longer to review medical results than it does to conduct the medical itself, or you consider your staff can justify charging more per hour than my GP? I’d love to know their credentials. Are your staff Specialists?)))))
In many cases, the assessment of a medical certificate application and the production of the certificate for an applicant who meets the medical standard will take less than an hour. However, there is a reasonable proportion of applicants for medical certificates who do not meet the medical standard and need case management. These harder cases take considerably longer than an hour to deal with, and consequently increase the amount of time taken by CASA to assess medical certificate applications when averaged over all medical certificates issued by CASA.
(((((So to work this out, based on roughly 33,000 pilots in Australia, medicals take you 33,000 hours to process on average, equaling 4,400 x 7.5hr days, equaling 880 working weeks, equaling over 18 years of work for one person to manage. Any chance you are over inflating the average processing time on this or do you have a production line of dedicated staff working night and day?))))))
In determining how much to charge for medical certificates, whether by a fixed fee or an hourly fee per application, in the interests of equity and consistent with its treatment of other individual licences and certificates, CASA decided on setting a fixed fee payable by all applicants, regardless of the complexity of an application. Also, a fixed fee is simple to apply for the applicant and CASA, which helps to minimise the administration costs. The alternative of charging an hourly rate would mean that applicants who do not meet the medical standard would be forced to pay fees considerably in excess of the $130 flat fee.
(((((So? And if I invest a lot of time and money keeping myself fit for flying why can’t I have the right to pay less than $130?)))))
Options are already being considered on how to streamline the processing and consideration of medical certificate applications. CASA will consult further with industry on its overall cost recovery initiative to ensure that the most appropriate and efficient mechanisms are adopted. The implementation of increased cost recovery will be reviewed in 2006-07. And of course CASA has an ongoing review of service delivery methods, operating costs and the way it undertakes its core functions, which aims to identify further efficiencies.
Details of CASA fees, and the consultation undertaken by CASA in developing those fees, can be found at http://www.casa.govau/corporat/fees/index.htm.
Yours sincerely
xxxxxxx
for
Geoff Kimber
Acting General Manager
Corporate Relations
23 January 2006
I have added my opinion on a few of the points marked by ((((())))) - couldn't get font colour to change to make it easier!
Am I way off and on my own with my responses? Keen to know.
It reads:
Dear xxxxx
From 1 January 2006, a suite of new and increased charges apply to Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) regulatory services, with many charged at hourly rate to reflect the work required of CASA.
The change in fees follows the Australian Government’s decision on funding levels for CASA as part of a Long Term Funding Strategy (LTFS) that aims to deliver sustainable funding arrangements and certainty for both the aviation safety regulator and industry. Even after the new charges take effect, direct cost recovery will only contribute a small share of CASA’s total income – from around 5 per cent in 2004-05 to nine per cent this financial year and to around sixteen per cent in 2008-09. Fee income is to gradually rise from $5 million in 2004-05 to $10.5 million in 2005-06 and eventually to $20 million in 2008-09, being partially offset by a $5 million fall in fuel excise in 2008-09.
CASA’s cost recovery is designed to partially or fully recover the costs of providing consumer based services and activities as opposed to a flat tax or levy which are set independently of the cost of provision. Some of the guiding principles include only implementing cost recovery when it is cost effective to do so and ensuring that charges only relate to the costs of providing the services, rather than indirect costs such as policy functions.
One of the new fees is for medical certification. There is a fixed fee of $130 for the processing and consideration of an application for the issue or renewal of a medical certificate. This figure represents an average of an hour's work by CASA on this task, and as for the CASA hourly rate, includes all overheads associated with the provision of an hour's labour by CASA.
(((((The cost for my medical was $90. So it takes longer to review medical results than it does to conduct the medical itself, or you consider your staff can justify charging more per hour than my GP? I’d love to know their credentials. Are your staff Specialists?)))))
In many cases, the assessment of a medical certificate application and the production of the certificate for an applicant who meets the medical standard will take less than an hour. However, there is a reasonable proportion of applicants for medical certificates who do not meet the medical standard and need case management. These harder cases take considerably longer than an hour to deal with, and consequently increase the amount of time taken by CASA to assess medical certificate applications when averaged over all medical certificates issued by CASA.
(((((So to work this out, based on roughly 33,000 pilots in Australia, medicals take you 33,000 hours to process on average, equaling 4,400 x 7.5hr days, equaling 880 working weeks, equaling over 18 years of work for one person to manage. Any chance you are over inflating the average processing time on this or do you have a production line of dedicated staff working night and day?))))))
In determining how much to charge for medical certificates, whether by a fixed fee or an hourly fee per application, in the interests of equity and consistent with its treatment of other individual licences and certificates, CASA decided on setting a fixed fee payable by all applicants, regardless of the complexity of an application. Also, a fixed fee is simple to apply for the applicant and CASA, which helps to minimise the administration costs. The alternative of charging an hourly rate would mean that applicants who do not meet the medical standard would be forced to pay fees considerably in excess of the $130 flat fee.
(((((So? And if I invest a lot of time and money keeping myself fit for flying why can’t I have the right to pay less than $130?)))))
Options are already being considered on how to streamline the processing and consideration of medical certificate applications. CASA will consult further with industry on its overall cost recovery initiative to ensure that the most appropriate and efficient mechanisms are adopted. The implementation of increased cost recovery will be reviewed in 2006-07. And of course CASA has an ongoing review of service delivery methods, operating costs and the way it undertakes its core functions, which aims to identify further efficiencies.
Details of CASA fees, and the consultation undertaken by CASA in developing those fees, can be found at http://www.casa.govau/corporat/fees/index.htm.
Yours sincerely
xxxxxxx
for
Geoff Kimber
Acting General Manager
Corporate Relations
23 January 2006
G'day Deckchair
I can't help wondering how old you are - not that there is any immaturity reflected in your post but I wonder if you are simply too young and fit to have had a flash of your mortality yet.
Remember all those inane questions you answered "NO" in the questionnaire? Just think of all those things that might go wrong and require you, too, to be singled out for special consideration.
I had cardio thoracic surgery in 2004 to correct an aortic aneurism. This is not a fitness issue but the result of an obscure genetic abnormality and it was, ironically, picked up during my class 1 renewal. (Yes I am lucky to be here). I was (and still am) pretty fit and (following some spectacular surgery) I can once again enjoy a normal range of sports and recreational activities.
At 30 I was the youngest patient in the Cardiac ICU... that week, anyway.
To keep my Class 1 (and to feed my wife and family) I need to have a range of tests and screenings each year to ensure there are no recurrences. This has to be considereed by their specialists and yes, Dr Tak Sham is a fully qualified cardiologist I believe.
The $130 is a bit like medical insurance; you pay a bit more than you need in your youth, and hopefully you will get it back a bit later. I hate the fees too but at least some of us can deduct it from Tax.
Good luck mate
I can't help wondering how old you are - not that there is any immaturity reflected in your post but I wonder if you are simply too young and fit to have had a flash of your mortality yet.
Remember all those inane questions you answered "NO" in the questionnaire? Just think of all those things that might go wrong and require you, too, to be singled out for special consideration.
I had cardio thoracic surgery in 2004 to correct an aortic aneurism. This is not a fitness issue but the result of an obscure genetic abnormality and it was, ironically, picked up during my class 1 renewal. (Yes I am lucky to be here). I was (and still am) pretty fit and (following some spectacular surgery) I can once again enjoy a normal range of sports and recreational activities.
At 30 I was the youngest patient in the Cardiac ICU... that week, anyway.
To keep my Class 1 (and to feed my wife and family) I need to have a range of tests and screenings each year to ensure there are no recurrences. This has to be considereed by their specialists and yes, Dr Tak Sham is a fully qualified cardiologist I believe.
The $130 is a bit like medical insurance; you pay a bit more than you need in your youth, and hopefully you will get it back a bit later. I hate the fees too but at least some of us can deduct it from Tax.
Good luck mate
Horatio, how much of a part did CASA play in you getting your medical back? It would seem that you still have to satisfy your DAME in order to get a class 1 medical but I fail to see what part CASA have to play in it. I'm sure that you paid the cardiologist bills, not CASA and that you went to an independant person rather than someone on the CASA payroll. I find it disturbing that any pilot would side with CASA and agree that I deserve a pay cut of $2.50 per week. If a Polition gives a $2.50 pay rise, he gets voted in.
Kelly
I know, I know.
My certification had to go to a review panel at CASA. My DAME did all the normal stuff and co-ordinates the paperwork trail, but at the end of the day he only sends it to them.
My Medical bears the dreaded "Renew by CASA only" and thus can't be stamped by my DAME.
Yes I am selfish enough to keep flying, too.
The ASICs/AVIDs are a joke and $130 to put a new type on your licence is a joke and $65 to fax a copy of old mate's medical certificate is a joke. All these fees are a joke but ... for the medicals I can understand (even if I'm not happy about it personally).
Cheers
I know, I know.
My certification had to go to a review panel at CASA. My DAME did all the normal stuff and co-ordinates the paperwork trail, but at the end of the day he only sends it to them.
My Medical bears the dreaded "Renew by CASA only" and thus can't be stamped by my DAME.
Yes I am selfish enough to keep flying, too.
The ASICs/AVIDs are a joke and $130 to put a new type on your licence is a joke and $65 to fax a copy of old mate's medical certificate is a joke. All these fees are a joke but ... for the medicals I can understand (even if I'm not happy about it personally).
Cheers
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Beg's the question, why on earth do we pay taxes? Will we soon pay a call-out fee for the police?
A lot of anger out there in GA circles, particularly for the less experienced guys (all of us at one point!!!) who can't command decent, let alone award wages and this impost just adds to an already hard career path. The originator certainly has some valid arguments and I could argue against the guy and say hey, cut them some slack....these guys are so slow, generally incompitent and largely apathetic that is probably does take them a day to process a medical. If only we could charge them our hourly rate when we calculate all the time we take in chasing medicals, licence amendments etc etc.
CASA truly are a disgraceful organisation in almost every respect after ten years in the industry, I am still searching for something positive to say about them.
A lot of anger out there in GA circles, particularly for the less experienced guys (all of us at one point!!!) who can't command decent, let alone award wages and this impost just adds to an already hard career path. The originator certainly has some valid arguments and I could argue against the guy and say hey, cut them some slack....these guys are so slow, generally incompitent and largely apathetic that is probably does take them a day to process a medical. If only we could charge them our hourly rate when we calculate all the time we take in chasing medicals, licence amendments etc etc.
CASA truly are a disgraceful organisation in almost every respect after ten years in the industry, I am still searching for something positive to say about them.
The number of ATPL/CPL/flight engineers with current class 1 medicals is 12767.
There are 20389 pilots with biannual class 2 medicals. That gives 10194 class 2 medicals per annum.
Total medicals process by casa in 2004: 22961.
At one hour each, that's 22961 hours.
Now there are (38 working hours a week, 46 weeks a year (52-annual leave and pulic hols) 1748 working hours a year.
Divide 1 by 2 and you have 13 people that would have to be working on pilot medicals full time - each and every work day of the year....
How many are there?
There are 20389 pilots with biannual class 2 medicals. That gives 10194 class 2 medicals per annum.
Total medicals process by casa in 2004: 22961.
At one hour each, that's 22961 hours.
Now there are (38 working hours a week, 46 weeks a year (52-annual leave and pulic hols) 1748 working hours a year.
Divide 1 by 2 and you have 13 people that would have to be working on pilot medicals full time - each and every work day of the year....
How many are there?
Last edited by compressor stall; 24th Jan 2006 at 16:11.
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If an ATO has an instrument to act on behalf of CASA, test and write out certificates for Licences, Ratings ect. Then surely a Qualified and certified DESIGNATED aviation medical EXAMINER, can write out the certificates on behalf of CASA at the time of Medical. They already have the power to extend it for two months. OK so charge a bit extra for the old A4 paper, but unless you have a problem which may need to be referred to a CASA specialist, there should be no need for them to, wait for it DOUBLE HANDLED(govt Dept's a great for creating work already created). They are effectively, saying your a DAME but we do not trust you so we will just double check your work. BulshUt they are revenue raising.
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I still don't get it - they are not providing a service, it is a regulatory requirement. If anything WE are providing a service to them by proving our medical fitness. It's like buying a ticket for a movie, and having to pay extra to the bloke on the door for the 'service' of collecting your ticket.
Hint: Try and get a medical as searching as the Med Certificate, and then get the Doctor(s) to certify in writing that you are fit to operate heavy machinery for less than 90+130 = $220.
Have a mate whose heart problems were picked up at his medical. Triple bypass at the Alfred three days later.
CASA biannual medical is good value (110 per annum) just on the basis of what they pick up even if you don't fly
Have a mate whose heart problems were picked up at his medical. Triple bypass at the Alfred three days later.
CASA biannual medical is good value (110 per annum) just on the basis of what they pick up even if you don't fly
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I don't have a problem with paying the doctor $90 for a medical exam. I do have a problem with paying $130 extra for a piece of paper, which says nothing the doctor already hasn't.
TLAW you've got it exactly right.
$$$ to the doctor is payment to him for his craft. But for CA$A to then charge such a fee for processing it is a
insult to the industry - and can be shown (see above) to be a blatent load of garbage.
Yet they wheel it out anyway
Like the scorpion on the frog's back, they just can't help themselves, and won't be satisfied until there is no G.A. left to regulate.
Who'll pay the bloody fees then you morons?!
How can we get them all in the same room, to knock some sense into 'em?
CR.
$$$ to the doctor is payment to him for his craft. But for CA$A to then charge such a fee for processing it is a
insult to the industry - and can be shown (see above) to be a blatent load of garbage.Yet they wheel it out anyway
Like the scorpion on the frog's back, they just can't help themselves, and won't be satisfied until there is no G.A. left to regulate.
Who'll pay the bloody fees then you morons?!
How can we get them all in the same room, to knock some sense into 'em?
CR.
I think CASA should take a leaf out of the sustainable agriculture handbook.
We (pilots/aircrew/controller/etc) are like cattle (or sheep if your from NZ
), you can take a certain amount from us each year to make money for yourselves and to improve the farm. However, if you take everything in one go then there is nothing there for next year and so your source of income stops.
Now if you only take a little bit, just enough to keep yourselves happy and the farm running then next year there well be more of us. The more of us there are the money you can make and so on and so on. I learnt this in year 8. Funny how I never thought I would use it.
We (pilots/aircrew/controller/etc) are like cattle (or sheep if your from NZ
), you can take a certain amount from us each year to make money for yourselves and to improve the farm. However, if you take everything in one go then there is nothing there for next year and so your source of income stops.Now if you only take a little bit, just enough to keep yourselves happy and the farm running then next year there well be more of us. The more of us there are the money you can make and so on and so on. I learnt this in year 8. Funny how I never thought I would use it.
DAME's apparently are avoiding the online submission of medicals - claim it takes them an hour to do it ! Now that's progress !
So, it's still on paper. But, CASA charge the DAME $1.50 per sheet for these forms. Encouragement to change?
Talk about squeezing the lemon !
happy days,
So, it's still on paper. But, CASA charge the DAME $1.50 per sheet for these forms. Encouragement to change?
Talk about squeezing the lemon !
happy days,
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What about GST?
Does this $130 include GST?
I'm considering sending two cheques along with my medical, one for $117 and another for $13 to cover the GST component; appropriate receipts included included with my medical thankyou!
If the medical certificate turns up within 8 weeks I'll send another $50 to the Spastic Centre.
I'm considering sending two cheques along with my medical, one for $117 and another for $13 to cover the GST component; appropriate receipts included included with my medical thankyou!
If the medical certificate turns up within 8 weeks I'll send another $50 to the Spastic Centre.
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At my last check up the DAME went through the online form and ticked the boxes as i answered. Didn't appear to take much (any) longer doing it that way. If CASA receive the information in that format I can't see how it would take an hour to process. Perhaps as more DAMEs use that method it will reduce the time required for CASA to process each renewal and they'll be able to lower their charges accordingly.
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Endorsements-necessary, or rorts?
The $130 fee is bearable, but is possibly the thin end of the wedge. Is it necessary?
I remember, some time ago, hearing about the head of CASA medical section hiring the RFDS kingair, getting an endorsement on it, and going out on some evacuation flights.
When he resigned, he was asked if he resigned because he did not get a boeing endorsement. He did not answer.
Is part of this $130 going to things like that? Does the CASA desk staff get flight training at our expense?
I remember, some time ago, hearing about the head of CASA medical section hiring the RFDS kingair, getting an endorsement on it, and going out on some evacuation flights.
When he resigned, he was asked if he resigned because he did not get a boeing endorsement. He did not answer.
Is part of this $130 going to things like that? Does the CASA desk staff get flight training at our expense?