What would you do in this situation??
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What would you do in this situation??
Your flying in the outback for some operator and you have been rostered to fly a day charter trip with 5 paxs on board.
You notice that while out at some dicky knee airstrip whilst your paxs are swimming at the local waterhole, your propeller has a slight crack in it.
You only have a few food and water supplies on board and your paxs will be keen to get back after there big day.
Do you:
1.) Call maintenance (assuming you can get in contact with them!) and ask for a engineer to be flown out?
2.) Take off and hope for the best and pretend to realize it when you landed so your peers and boss don't think your a goose or a threat to safety.
3.) Do some full power run ups, varying the pitch and power to see if the vibration or anything else is an issue and then make the call?
Are there any rules which state the conditions that a pilot has to consider with regards to the propeller? If so can you point me in that direction.....
Cheers
You notice that while out at some dicky knee airstrip whilst your paxs are swimming at the local waterhole, your propeller has a slight crack in it.
You only have a few food and water supplies on board and your paxs will be keen to get back after there big day.
Do you:
1.) Call maintenance (assuming you can get in contact with them!) and ask for a engineer to be flown out?
2.) Take off and hope for the best and pretend to realize it when you landed so your peers and boss don't think your a goose or a threat to safety.
3.) Do some full power run ups, varying the pitch and power to see if the vibration or anything else is an issue and then make the call?
Are there any rules which state the conditions that a pilot has to consider with regards to the propeller? If so can you point me in that direction.....
Cheers
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Re: What would you do in this situation??
Not sure about specific rules WRT props, but if I found anything that didn't look right and I was unsure about, I'd be contacting maintenance. I think it's called "duty of care"....
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Re: What would you do in this situation??
Correct Answer = No. 1 DO NOT ACCEPT ANY OTHER ANSWER FROM YOUR EMPLOYER.
If its got a crack ANY crack, you're not going anywhere until it is replaced or an engineer has inspected the crack and dressed it out, if it is possible, within the propellor manufacturers specifications.
Are there any rules which state the condition........ see above including leading edge dings.
It is unlikely the crack just "appeared".
THE most important part of your preflight IS the propellor. You could say I'm paranoid about it particularly if there are other people flying the aircraft.
better to be a bit thirsty and hungry than dead.
If all or any part of the blade comes adrift during flight it will most likely take the engine out of the frame, the C of G goes way aft of the tail....... it's all bad news after that
You had to be on the frequency yonks ago and hear the guy trying to deal with the above, to know that this is a place you do not want to go.
If its got a crack ANY crack, you're not going anywhere until it is replaced or an engineer has inspected the crack and dressed it out, if it is possible, within the propellor manufacturers specifications.
Are there any rules which state the condition........ see above including leading edge dings.
It is unlikely the crack just "appeared".
THE most important part of your preflight IS the propellor. You could say I'm paranoid about it particularly if there are other people flying the aircraft.
You only have a few food and water supplies on board and your paxs will be keen to get back after there big day
If all or any part of the blade comes adrift during flight it will most likely take the engine out of the frame, the C of G goes way aft of the tail....... it's all bad news after that
You had to be on the frequency yonks ago and hear the guy trying to deal with the above, to know that this is a place you do not want to go.
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Re: What would you do in this situation??
It might not only be the prop thats cracked, there might be more damage closer in near the hub.
I remember about 3 or so years ago now there was a 210 that hit a dog (ok so more than just a chip, but still dealing with props and uncurtainty), after a few tests by the pilot he flies the plane and on shut down one of the blades ended up fully feathered, on a 210 it's not a good thing. The pilot was very lucky to land.
My money would be on making the call to LAME.
I remember about 3 or so years ago now there was a 210 that hit a dog (ok so more than just a chip, but still dealing with props and uncurtainty), after a few tests by the pilot he flies the plane and on shut down one of the blades ended up fully feathered, on a 210 it's not a good thing. The pilot was very lucky to land.
My money would be on making the call to LAME.
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Re: What would you do in this situation??
What a bunch of girls. Give it a go mate. Just make sure you have your hand on the mixture at all times, ready to pull it back real quick like, coz if you do lose even an inch or two off that spinning prop, the imbalance will wrench the engine right out of its mountings and you will be going down like a cheap Thai hooker coz the airplane just got a ****load lighter and the CoG is way aft without that heavy donk, so your tailfeathers are just about useless.
Aaah, feel better now. Back to business.
Here are some tips I was given during training/hard experience in a couple thousand hours on 210/206.....
1. Do the same checks every time, every day. Don't rush or skip. When you do and inspect the following, you are building familiarity and routine. Knowing how something looked and felt that last hundred times you inspected it makes you more able to spot anything unusual.
2. If something doesn't look right, it probably isn't.
3. If you see something that makes you nervous or concerned, act on it.
4. Just about all the props on all the 210/206/402 I flew were 3 bladed CSU. First you would make sure the mags and switches are off before you start your preflight.
5. When you get to the prop, treat it as live. Oldie but a goodie. You will need two arms and two legs to fly that Airbus later.
6. Run your fingertips along the leading edge of each blade to feel for roughness or nicks. Eyeball both surfaces of each blade, leading and trailing edge as well. If it dark, you will be using your torch, wont you? (amazed how many times I have seen pilot 'inspect' their airplane in the dark with no torch, jesus wept.)
7. Inspect the spinner, look for cracks or damage, missing screws/bolts. Note any weeping of CSU oil along blades or on spinner. Look for any weeping or puddles of anything fresh under your aeroplane.
8. Grab each blade with two hands, one on the leading edge one on the trailing edge. Firmly attempt to rotate it from 'fine' to 'coarse.' There should be little to no play in each blade.
9. Grab one blade with two hands, usually the downward pointing blade if the prop has been 'dressed' and give it a firm pull forward and aft to see if there is any play there as well.
10. The first two or three times you do this, swallow your pride and go get an engineer and ask about anything you are unsure of. You want to get a feel for what is good and what needs attention.
I'm not chuck yeager, but that kept me alive for my 4 years/3000hr in pistons. There's probably some things i have forgotten to add. I'll come back and add them if/when I remember. Cheers.
Aaah, feel better now. Back to business.
Here are some tips I was given during training/hard experience in a couple thousand hours on 210/206.....
1. Do the same checks every time, every day. Don't rush or skip. When you do and inspect the following, you are building familiarity and routine. Knowing how something looked and felt that last hundred times you inspected it makes you more able to spot anything unusual.
2. If something doesn't look right, it probably isn't.
3. If you see something that makes you nervous or concerned, act on it.
4. Just about all the props on all the 210/206/402 I flew were 3 bladed CSU. First you would make sure the mags and switches are off before you start your preflight.
5. When you get to the prop, treat it as live. Oldie but a goodie. You will need two arms and two legs to fly that Airbus later.
6. Run your fingertips along the leading edge of each blade to feel for roughness or nicks. Eyeball both surfaces of each blade, leading and trailing edge as well. If it dark, you will be using your torch, wont you? (amazed how many times I have seen pilot 'inspect' their airplane in the dark with no torch, jesus wept.)
7. Inspect the spinner, look for cracks or damage, missing screws/bolts. Note any weeping of CSU oil along blades or on spinner. Look for any weeping or puddles of anything fresh under your aeroplane.
8. Grab each blade with two hands, one on the leading edge one on the trailing edge. Firmly attempt to rotate it from 'fine' to 'coarse.' There should be little to no play in each blade.
9. Grab one blade with two hands, usually the downward pointing blade if the prop has been 'dressed' and give it a firm pull forward and aft to see if there is any play there as well.
10. The first two or three times you do this, swallow your pride and go get an engineer and ask about anything you are unsure of. You want to get a feel for what is good and what needs attention.
I'm not chuck yeager, but that kept me alive for my 4 years/3000hr in pistons. There's probably some things i have forgotten to add. I'll come back and add them if/when I remember. Cheers.
Last edited by ITCZ; 14th Jan 2006 at 08:41.
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Re: What would you do in this situation??
Lost a prop blade once on a turboprop, before we could even think, the out-of balance forces had ripped the engine out of it's mounts. When we landed, it was hanging by the wiring loom and assorted pipes.
If you lose a blade in a single-engined aircraft, you will almost certainly lose the engine as well - it isn't held in by much. If you lose the engine, you have about 1-30 secs to live (depending on altitude).
If you lose a blade in a single-engined aircraft, you will almost certainly lose the engine as well - it isn't held in by much. If you lose the engine, you have about 1-30 secs to live (depending on altitude).
Last edited by Woomera; 14th Jan 2006 at 09:18.
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Re: What would you do in this situation??
Umm, MOR, I think ITCZ was being deliberately facetious with his initial comments.
Surely no-one would think he was serious....would they??
Lighten up huh?
Surely no-one would think he was serious....would they??
Lighten up huh?
Re: What would you do in this situation??
Get out the hacksaw and cut all the blades off at the same point. Be carefull during the ensuing takeoff as you will have to carry out a reduced power takeoff in order to keep the RPM within limits. 
PS .. bury the evidence before departure!
PS .. bury the evidence before departure!
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Re: What would you do in this situation??
Well I was being facetious too, but I guess woomera didn't get it. That's PPRuNe justice for you 
The lost blade was between Glasgow and Belfast City (UK) in a Shorts 360, at night, in nasty weather. It later transpired that the prop had a falsified logbook and had been imported from South America after a dodgy repair.
The lost blade was between Glasgow and Belfast City (UK) in a Shorts 360, at night, in nasty weather. It later transpired that the prop had a falsified logbook and had been imported from South America after a dodgy repair.
Grandpa Aerotart
Re: What would you do in this situation??
Hey Fathom....that'd be the 'Max in the Baron' effort wouldn't it
On a more serious note I am wondering why anyone with a licence and minimal intellect has to ask such a question.
On a more serious note I am wondering why anyone with a licence and minimal intellect has to ask such a question.
Silly Old Git
Re: What would you do in this situation??
Tin still has a very powerful magnifying glass given to him 30 odd years ago by a ginger beer to keep an "eye on" a propellor crack.
I cant begin to tell you how hard that was in flight.
I cant begin to tell you how hard that was in flight.
Mostly Harmless
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Re: What would you do in this situation??
Following from the book Voyager relates a story about Jeanna Yeager in a Long-EZ:
"...I really had the engine cranking when I lost about 60% of one prop blade. The vibration was terrific-it shattered instruments and punched holes in the engine cowling."
And this was a little aircraft with a little engine and a timber prop.
"...I really had the engine cranking when I lost about 60% of one prop blade. The vibration was terrific-it shattered instruments and punched holes in the engine cowling."
And this was a little aircraft with a little engine and a timber prop.
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Re: What would you do in this situation??
Big Kev, considering all the technology, dye penetrates and the like LAME's invoke to check out a prop, seeing a crack with the naked eye means that prop is well and truely past its use by date.
I don't believe any mature pilot needs to ask such a question either. Call it duty of care, self preservation, professionalism, airmanship or anything else you like, none of my pilot associates would operate an aircraft as you hypothetically describe.
Again, if you really need to ask the question, you should not be flying yet as PIC.
tipsy
I don't believe any mature pilot needs to ask such a question either. Call it duty of care, self preservation, professionalism, airmanship or anything else you like, none of my pilot associates would operate an aircraft as you hypothetically describe.
Again, if you really need to ask the question, you should not be flying yet as PIC.
tipsy
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Re: What would you do in this situation??
Did i miss out on a bit of Pprune argy-bargy? Damn. MOR, please PM your original 
Tipsy2, I agree with you, but we were all new once. Boggy GA pilots receive less quality supervision (sometimes nil) these days. They don't do face to face with met officers and flight service officers, they don't submit flight plans, there isn't operational control etc etc.
They do visit here though, hopefully they get a bit of the message.
Tipsy2, I agree with you, but we were all new once. Boggy GA pilots receive less quality supervision (sometimes nil) these days. They don't do face to face with met officers and flight service officers, they don't submit flight plans, there isn't operational control etc etc.
They do visit here though, hopefully they get a bit of the message.
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Re: What would you do in this situation??
If you see a crack in the propeller, than you don't take off, you will indanger the lives of your passangers and yourself. Common sense will take you far. And at the temperatures of the outback in Australia, the heat and the vibration would surely add twice as much damage.
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Re: What would you do in this situation??
Say you do take off with a crack, not only losing your engine & prop. Obviously. If you crashed think about the money, repairs and being sued by the surviving paxs. 
Re: What would you do in this situation??
Originally Posted by Chimbu chuckles
..that'd be the 'Max in the Baron' effort wouldn't it
..and to all you aspiring young bush pilots, it's a myth, pay no attention to Uncle Chimbu!