Jetstar International - 40% Cheaper?
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Jetstar International - 40% Cheaper?
Great news that Jetstar pilots have walked away from management's offer to crew Jetstar International. Word in our part of the world was that the offer was current Jetstar salary plus 12% ONLY ON THE DAYS FLOWN! I belive this would equate to around 140K for a skipper. And if it is also based on a 75 hour month be aware that it will be almost impossible to fly more than that amount internationally on a regular basis, so don't count on much in the way of overtime. No inside knowledge re allowances. Can anyone shed any light?
The other thing to add to this is that you will be flying international to the CAO exemption so even if you can get to overtime territory, the flying will kill you and any lifestyle you thought you may have. This should definitely be a factor for any Australian overseas thinking of heading back.
A couple of points to note. At Australian Airlines the pilots have been told they operate at a 20-25% discount to mainline. This has been achieved almost purely by work practices. Actual salaries are similar to mainline. And AO do not operate to the exemption (YET!), which would make these work practice savings even greater.
My point is that Jetstar International, as a greenfields airline and operating to the exemption, will already be at a minimum 25% discount to mainline pilots even before taking salaries into account. So the 40% target can still be achieved by salaries which are only 15% lower than mainline. This should mean that for aircraft of the A330/787 capacity, a skipper on around 200K.
So to all you Jetstar pilots, do not let management bully you into thinking you must operate at a salary level 40% lower than mainline for them to meet their cost targets. You have been screwed once by them threatening your jobs, but they can't do that to you again. The pressure will now be on them. They have made a huge order, and with aircraft being assembled in Seattle they simply don't have the time for an extended industrial battle. Stand up and be counted and wait until they come up with a credible offer, because if they don't, TJ, IO and AJ will all have to answer as to why shiny new 787's have to be parked against a fence. And then we'll see a few beads of sweat on management brows...
OI
The other thing to add to this is that you will be flying international to the CAO exemption so even if you can get to overtime territory, the flying will kill you and any lifestyle you thought you may have. This should definitely be a factor for any Australian overseas thinking of heading back.
A couple of points to note. At Australian Airlines the pilots have been told they operate at a 20-25% discount to mainline. This has been achieved almost purely by work practices. Actual salaries are similar to mainline. And AO do not operate to the exemption (YET!), which would make these work practice savings even greater.
My point is that Jetstar International, as a greenfields airline and operating to the exemption, will already be at a minimum 25% discount to mainline pilots even before taking salaries into account. So the 40% target can still be achieved by salaries which are only 15% lower than mainline. This should mean that for aircraft of the A330/787 capacity, a skipper on around 200K.
So to all you Jetstar pilots, do not let management bully you into thinking you must operate at a salary level 40% lower than mainline for them to meet their cost targets. You have been screwed once by them threatening your jobs, but they can't do that to you again. The pressure will now be on them. They have made a huge order, and with aircraft being assembled in Seattle they simply don't have the time for an extended industrial battle. Stand up and be counted and wait until they come up with a credible offer, because if they don't, TJ, IO and AJ will all have to answer as to why shiny new 787's have to be parked against a fence. And then we'll see a few beads of sweat on management brows...
OI
Ochre
Thanks for the info. Re the CAO exemptions, these are not very effective in Long Haul operations as 13 hours is the limit and even if the crew is augmented they cannot operate past 13hours (or 3 hour time zone change). When the QF A330's were operating under the short haul award using the CAO exemptions, there was a HKG-PER service that diverted to Learmonth after failing to get into PER. Even though there was 3 pilots operating they could not operate the aircraft back to PER because of the 13 hour limit. A very expensive and time consuming exercise involving hiring an aircraft (3 attempts) to fly a replacement crew PER-LMO was then required which resulted in the aircraft arriving in Perth very late with significant delays to subsequent services.
Without the exemtions, the augmented crew would have been able to continue their tour of duty and fly the aircraft back to Perth resulting in a much shorter delay.
If J* Intl's planned destinations have a time zone change in excess of 3 hours (eg HNL) then they will definitly not be using the exemptions.
GB
Thanks for the info. Re the CAO exemptions, these are not very effective in Long Haul operations as 13 hours is the limit and even if the crew is augmented they cannot operate past 13hours (or 3 hour time zone change). When the QF A330's were operating under the short haul award using the CAO exemptions, there was a HKG-PER service that diverted to Learmonth after failing to get into PER. Even though there was 3 pilots operating they could not operate the aircraft back to PER because of the 13 hour limit. A very expensive and time consuming exercise involving hiring an aircraft (3 attempts) to fly a replacement crew PER-LMO was then required which resulted in the aircraft arriving in Perth very late with significant delays to subsequent services.
Without the exemtions, the augmented crew would have been able to continue their tour of duty and fly the aircraft back to Perth resulting in a much shorter delay.
If J* Intl's planned destinations have a time zone change in excess of 3 hours (eg HNL) then they will definitly not be using the exemptions.
GB
Going Boeing
I am not sure what exemption you have looked at but the "industry standard" exemption goes to 14 hrs single crew and 16 hrs augmented.
The duty time reduces when sectors increase but for long haul 16 hrs with a S/O or 2 F/O's will get you most places that the 330 can get you to in a single sector I would have thought.
I am not sure what exemption you have looked at but the "industry standard" exemption goes to 14 hrs single crew and 16 hrs augmented.
The duty time reduces when sectors increase but for long haul 16 hrs with a S/O or 2 F/O's will get you most places that the 330 can get you to in a single sector I would have thought.
DHD
I'm refering to the CAO exemptions that TN and AN organised with the powers that be immediately after that dispute in 1989. AN was using them right up to their demise and QF domestic uses them as they inherited the CASA approval when they bought TN in 1992. Both those airlines had never needed to use augmented crews so there is no provision for longer tours of duty. If these are the exemptions that Ochre Insider was refering to then I can't see J* Intl using them as 13 hours with a max 3 hour time zone change would be too limiting. The normal CAO48 provisions for augmented crews would give much more flexibility. GB
I'm refering to the CAO exemptions that TN and AN organised with the powers that be immediately after that dispute in 1989. AN was using them right up to their demise and QF domestic uses them as they inherited the CASA approval when they bought TN in 1992. Both those airlines had never needed to use augmented crews so there is no provision for longer tours of duty. If these are the exemptions that Ochre Insider was refering to then I can't see J* Intl using them as 13 hours with a max 3 hour time zone change would be too limiting. The normal CAO48 provisions for augmented crews would give much more flexibility. GB
I had it wrong, the exemption lets you go to 22 hrs with an augmented crew
Link refers: http://www.casa.gov.au/aoc/fatigue/regs/part02.htm
As it is either going to be a new AOC (ozjet perhaps?) or the Impulse/Jetstar AOC, I imagine that this is the exemption they would use - they would not need to use or indeed be able to use the QF (TN) exemption as that was/is issued to that particular AOC.
Link refers: http://www.casa.gov.au/aoc/fatigue/regs/part02.htm
As it is either going to be a new AOC (ozjet perhaps?) or the Impulse/Jetstar AOC, I imagine that this is the exemption they would use - they would not need to use or indeed be able to use the QF (TN) exemption as that was/is issued to that particular AOC.
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They can stick it
Listen guys, don't get so desperate about Jet Star International. They are trying to screw our profession. We are gonna get f**ked over by these guys just so they can line shareholder pockets with dividends. Make sure you have a second job and then dig in.
What in the f**k are we doing this for? Come on guys wake up.
What in the f**k are we doing this for? Come on guys wake up.
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do not let management bully you into thinking you must operate at a salary level 40% lower than mainline for them to meet their cost targets.
You have been screwed once by them threatening your jobs
They are trying to screw our profession. We are gonna get f**ked over by these guys
Lock it out as an industrial action and make sure everyone in the world knows they should not be crossing the picket line. Worked last time... for a while.
Does the AFAP still exist?
Only problem is, then JetStar will be crewed by punjabbies (with bum-jabbies in the cabin...
) and we'll be counting the days until a hull-loss.Alas, as we all know will happen, the short-sighted will jump at a chance to fly a jet for peanuts.
