Jetstar changed min hours
Engine out. You'll find that it is RPT conducted in aircraft above 5700kg that requires ATPL/CIR-ME/2000TT/500ME etc.
Single pilot RPT in aircraft below 5700kg only requires CPL/CIR-ME/1000TT/300ME and a couple of other requirements for type and ngt.
CAO 82.3 app 4 refers.
Nev. Admittedly without any insider knowledge, they probably have a training/sim regime that allows them a similar dispo to QF.
OpsN
Single pilot RPT in aircraft below 5700kg only requires CPL/CIR-ME/1000TT/300ME and a couple of other requirements for type and ngt.
CAO 82.3 app 4 refers.
Nev. Admittedly without any insider knowledge, they probably have a training/sim regime that allows them a similar dispo to QF.
OpsN
Engine out you are 100% correct - Ops normal, your reference answers it all.
CAO82.3 does not apply to Jetstar operations CAO82.5 is the applicable CAO.
There is no command hour requirement for high capacity operations in the CAO's other than that required for the PIC to hold an ATPL.
CAO82.3 does not apply to Jetstar operations CAO82.5 is the applicable CAO.
There is no command hour requirement for high capacity operations in the CAO's other than that required for the PIC to hold an ATPL.
Dehav, are you sure? CAO82.5 makes no distinction on hours, only the structure and conditions on an AOC WRT Hi Cap RPT.
82.5 is nothing whatsoever to do with the hours required (for ATPL) to conduct the operation, only how it must be structured WRT CAR217 etc.
I'll stand by what I said, but why would say a B1900 have a higher requirement to act as a member of flight crew than would a Boeing if 82.3 had no bearing on Hi Cap RPT?
OpsN
82.5 is nothing whatsoever to do with the hours required (for ATPL) to conduct the operation, only how it must be structured WRT CAR217 etc.
I'll stand by what I said, but why would say a B1900 have a higher requirement to act as a member of flight crew than would a Boeing if 82.3 had no bearing on Hi Cap RPT?
OpsN
Last edited by OpsNormal; 16th Dec 2005 at 19:53.
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Engine out wins the cigar
Same anomaly occurred back in the Kendell days.
Several cadets could not command a Saab or Metro pre CRJ, when the operation was low cap, because of the deficiency in command hours (without a lot of ICUS),
However, when the CRJ was introduced the operation became high cap, the same cadets obtained commands on the CRJ.
WRT QF, to the best of my knowledge, no dispo is required, when the Captain is on his assigned rest break then the FO is ICUS, therefore gaining or expanding his command time.
Same anomaly occurred back in the Kendell days.
Several cadets could not command a Saab or Metro pre CRJ, when the operation was low cap, because of the deficiency in command hours (without a lot of ICUS),
However, when the CRJ was introduced the operation became high cap, the same cadets obtained commands on the CRJ.
WRT QF, to the best of my knowledge, no dispo is required, when the Captain is on his assigned rest break then the FO is ICUS, therefore gaining or expanding his command time.
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Alright, you made me look it up:
CAO 82.3 - Conditions on Air Operators' Certificates Authorising Regular Public Transport Operations in OTHER THAN High Capacity Aircraft
CAO 82.5 - Conditions on Air Operators' Certificates Authorising Regular Public Transport Operations in High Capacity Aircraft
Therefore CAO 82.3 has NOTHING to do with High capacity RPT ops
The 2000TT/500ME Command is in appendix 4 of CAO 82.3
There is no specifications as to the hours required by the PIC in CAO 82.5.
CAO 82.3 - Conditions on Air Operators' Certificates Authorising Regular Public Transport Operations in OTHER THAN High Capacity Aircraft
CAO 82.5 - Conditions on Air Operators' Certificates Authorising Regular Public Transport Operations in High Capacity Aircraft
Therefore CAO 82.3 has NOTHING to do with High capacity RPT ops
The 2000TT/500ME Command is in appendix 4 of CAO 82.3
There is no specifications as to the hours required by the PIC in CAO 82.5.
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Welcome Australia (Jetstar) to the land of the 21st century...yes we are Perfectly capable of piloting a multi-crew transport aircraft with less than 500hrs multi PIC, even if its some thing as automated and easy as an A320.
I wonder now if they will consider my 3000hrs of jet time as worthy candidate
I wonder now if they will consider my 3000hrs of jet time as worthy candidate
757, probably not.
I am sorry to say however I believe that your 3000 hrs of jet time doesn't really count as much.
You are competing with people with up to 10000 hrs total and 1000's of hours in command, often with regional two crew command experience.
3000 hrs as a F/O on a 757 (I assume) is nice but not really competitive - I am assuming that you have not much more than 3000 total time.
It sounds silly doesn't it but the reality is that people with command time in bug smasher twins have at least experience in command decision making, which is invaluable.
It is silly though that you can be a 747 (or 757) Captain but not a Saab Captain.
I believe that the origin of the anomaly is in the old licencing regime.
You never used to be able to get an ATPL unless you worked for an airline, in which case you got a 2nd class ATPL until you got your command then you got your 1st class ATPL.
If you didn't fly in an airline you got a SCPL - hence the origin of the term "doing your seniors". Exactly the same subjects, the licence you got depended on whether or not you worked for AN, TN or QF or not.
I suspect that 82.3 and 82.5 were framed in that environment. If you worked in a high capacity RPT operation you had an ATPL and you had been an F/O since Pontious was a cadet pilot.
If you worked in a low capacity operation you had a Senior Commercial Pilots Licence and because these operations didn't have the same training structure or artificial restrictions on time to LH seat (ie seniority, etc) the regulator of wehatever name at the time felt it necessary to impose limits on the experience required to command an aeroplane in RPT ops.
Remember that at the time that these CAO's were first written there wasn't the Dash-8 or SAAB etc, Fokkers were airline aircraft and were operated by the big 3 - therefore fell under CAO82.5 (they were high cap aircraft anyway). Regional aircraft (low cap) were not as sophisiticated (or as big) as they currently are - mostly being piston twins and the occasional smaller turbine.
I am sorry to say however I believe that your 3000 hrs of jet time doesn't really count as much.
You are competing with people with up to 10000 hrs total and 1000's of hours in command, often with regional two crew command experience.
3000 hrs as a F/O on a 757 (I assume) is nice but not really competitive - I am assuming that you have not much more than 3000 total time.
It sounds silly doesn't it but the reality is that people with command time in bug smasher twins have at least experience in command decision making, which is invaluable.
It is silly though that you can be a 747 (or 757) Captain but not a Saab Captain.
I believe that the origin of the anomaly is in the old licencing regime.
You never used to be able to get an ATPL unless you worked for an airline, in which case you got a 2nd class ATPL until you got your command then you got your 1st class ATPL.
If you didn't fly in an airline you got a SCPL - hence the origin of the term "doing your seniors". Exactly the same subjects, the licence you got depended on whether or not you worked for AN, TN or QF or not.
I suspect that 82.3 and 82.5 were framed in that environment. If you worked in a high capacity RPT operation you had an ATPL and you had been an F/O since Pontious was a cadet pilot.
If you worked in a low capacity operation you had a Senior Commercial Pilots Licence and because these operations didn't have the same training structure or artificial restrictions on time to LH seat (ie seniority, etc) the regulator of wehatever name at the time felt it necessary to impose limits on the experience required to command an aeroplane in RPT ops.
Remember that at the time that these CAO's were first written there wasn't the Dash-8 or SAAB etc, Fokkers were airline aircraft and were operated by the big 3 - therefore fell under CAO82.5 (they were high cap aircraft anyway). Regional aircraft (low cap) were not as sophisiticated (or as big) as they currently are - mostly being piston twins and the occasional smaller turbine.
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4600hrs TT or so
1150hr PIC (350 of which is multi-turbine B200)
1750 hrs A320-321
1500hrs B757/767
The rest is dual, as well as training, private flying etc.....
Still havent heard a peep out of these guys
1150hr PIC (350 of which is multi-turbine B200)
1750 hrs A320-321
1500hrs B757/767
The rest is dual, as well as training, private flying etc.....
Still havent heard a peep out of these guys
