QF order?
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Rumour I have heard is that the Airbus is back in favour. Apparently they are that cheap that the airline could not possibly knock back the offer, even though the Boeing specs may be a bit more attractive.
Personally I hope its Boeing, but not so sure now.
Personally I hope its Boeing, but not so sure now.
Join Date: Nov 2005
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I will second the above. QF will be going French to some extent, but Boeing will also get a slice of the order, maybe not as much as what people may expect. From an accountant neighbour, the Bus is now close to the finish line on dollars, but Mr Boeing may make a late dash down the straight. However, it seems they will not discount as much now as they are not as desperate to sell their a/c as production is pretty full on due to several large recent orders. Airbus really want a large slice of this order as they are now way behind Boeing for the year.
Also, the Boeing fleet will take a lot more time to come. With the Bus, there isn't much of a wait on 340's at the moment compared to the tripler, and they could be here pretty quick (even though the 350's will be a bit longer, due to Boeing sales, none of the 787's could be ready for Qantas before the 350 anyhow). Not to mention Airbus is desperate to get some 340's down this way and some more 350 orders on the books (again $ will get some here).
Pure speculation from a financial person, but they have been close to the mark on more than one occassion. Time will tell.
Perhaps QF should have made the decision earlier in the year, and then the Boeings would have probably won hands down.
Also, the Boeing fleet will take a lot more time to come. With the Bus, there isn't much of a wait on 340's at the moment compared to the tripler, and they could be here pretty quick (even though the 350's will be a bit longer, due to Boeing sales, none of the 787's could be ready for Qantas before the 350 anyhow). Not to mention Airbus is desperate to get some 340's down this way and some more 350 orders on the books (again $ will get some here).
Pure speculation from a financial person, but they have been close to the mark on more than one occassion. Time will tell.
Perhaps QF should have made the decision earlier in the year, and then the Boeings would have probably won hands down.
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Bazza,
you're not seriously telling us that QF are going to buy A340s, are you???
I would expect the 772LR is way more capable than the A345 and similarly the 773ER over the A346. I can see QF going for 787 and JQ for A350, however. I just wonder how big the JQ International order will be in the 1st place.
I also believe FJ's fleet renewal will be part of this order and Margaret Jackson confirmed on last weeks's Business Sunday, that the order could be well in excess of 100 aircraft(lots of options, obviously). Her comments in that interview mentioned aircraft for overflying hubs and more point-to-point routes. I think that is called "hub-busting".
I still expect this to be a majority Boeing order.
you're not seriously telling us that QF are going to buy A340s, are you???
I would expect the 772LR is way more capable than the A345 and similarly the 773ER over the A346. I can see QF going for 787 and JQ for A350, however. I just wonder how big the JQ International order will be in the 1st place.
I also believe FJ's fleet renewal will be part of this order and Margaret Jackson confirmed on last weeks's Business Sunday, that the order could be well in excess of 100 aircraft(lots of options, obviously). Her comments in that interview mentioned aircraft for overflying hubs and more point-to-point routes. I think that is called "hub-busting".
I still expect this to be a majority Boeing order.
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Got to agree.
Why the hell would you purchase an A340 which has higher engineering and maintenance costs being a 4 engined transport as opposed to a B777?
Got to agree that the B777 is alot more capable than the A340.
Why the hell would you purchase an A340 which has higher engineering and maintenance costs being a 4 engined transport as opposed to a B777?
Got to agree that the B777 is alot more capable than the A340.
Crystal Ball. 
Qantas mainline gets more A330s and some A340s possibly 350s later. Jetstar will get the 777s being 'built' at the moment, enough Emirates drivers (sick of the sand) will come back and fly them on cheaper rates, this also hurts that companies expansion plans as drivers flee - win win for Qantas. Might even force Emirates to start looking after their pilots a bit better?
Just as Jetstar got A320s vs 737s so as their operation was not too similar to Qantas 737 ops and a transmittion of buisness case was avoided. In this case Jetstar have to go for the Boeing 777 in preference to the A330 - it's worked before, why not try it again.
Perhaps some of those new 744 types in the Com will pay more attention than in the past now it's all getting closer to home.
Qantas mainline gets more A330s and some A340s possibly 350s later. Jetstar will get the 777s being 'built' at the moment, enough Emirates drivers (sick of the sand) will come back and fly them on cheaper rates, this also hurts that companies expansion plans as drivers flee - win win for Qantas. Might even force Emirates to start looking after their pilots a bit better?
Just as Jetstar got A320s vs 737s so as their operation was not too similar to Qantas 737 ops and a transmittion of buisness case was avoided. In this case Jetstar have to go for the Boeing 777 in preference to the A330 - it's worked before, why not try it again.
Perhaps some of those new 744 types in the Com will pay more attention than in the past now it's all getting closer to home.
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Crystal Ball.
Qantas mainline gets more A330s and some A340s possibly 350s later. Jetstar will get the 777s being 'built' at the moment, enough Emirates drivers (sick of the sand) will come back and fly them on cheaper rates, this also hurts that companies expansion plans as drivers flee - win win for Qantas. Might even force Emirates to start looking after their pilots a bit better?
Makes no sense whatsoever. Do you subscibe to JQ operating the premium 772LR service to LHR??? We know that's ridiculous and we know that the 345 business model won't work on this route.
Just as Jetstar got A320s vs 737s so as their operation was not too similar to Qantas 737 ops and a transmittion of buisness case was avoided. In this case Jetstar have to go for the Boeing 777 in preference to the A330 - it's worked before, why not try it again.
Wouldn't it be far easier and more prudent to transfer A330s over to JQ and keep them as all-Airbus??? 330/350 to JQ and 777/787 to QF mainline would seem way more logical/preferable to me. 777s can be delivered to QF by 1st quarter 2007 is what I have heard. There seems no better 763 domestic replacement than the 787. The 350 is heavier than the 330, has been made for long haul flying, and surely QF won't risk the A350 domestic model after the stunning failure of the 330 on short haul trunk domestic sectors?
Qantas mainline gets more A330s and some A340s possibly 350s later. Jetstar will get the 777s being 'built' at the moment, enough Emirates drivers (sick of the sand) will come back and fly them on cheaper rates, this also hurts that companies expansion plans as drivers flee - win win for Qantas. Might even force Emirates to start looking after their pilots a bit better?
Makes no sense whatsoever. Do you subscibe to JQ operating the premium 772LR service to LHR??? We know that's ridiculous and we know that the 345 business model won't work on this route.
Just as Jetstar got A320s vs 737s so as their operation was not too similar to Qantas 737 ops and a transmittion of buisness case was avoided. In this case Jetstar have to go for the Boeing 777 in preference to the A330 - it's worked before, why not try it again.
Wouldn't it be far easier and more prudent to transfer A330s over to JQ and keep them as all-Airbus??? 330/350 to JQ and 777/787 to QF mainline would seem way more logical/preferable to me. 777s can be delivered to QF by 1st quarter 2007 is what I have heard. There seems no better 763 domestic replacement than the 787. The 350 is heavier than the 330, has been made for long haul flying, and surely QF won't risk the A350 domestic model after the stunning failure of the 330 on short haul trunk domestic sectors?
Longreach, you had me right up 'til "surely QF won't risk the A350 domestic model after the stunning failure of the 330 on short haul trunk domestic sectors?"
My observation, backed up by non-verified anecdote & rumour is that the A330 is doing very nicely for QF in all its roles. What's your slant on that?
Cheers.
My observation, backed up by non-verified anecdote & rumour is that the A330 is doing very nicely for QF in all its roles. What's your slant on that?
Cheers.
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Very reliable source has it that Jetstar is about to expand exponentially with some serious new aircraft orders coming soon.
Better get out your B787 manuals boys and girls.
Geez I'm glad I am not a member of AIPA. Poor bastards just can't see the writing's on the wall can they?
Oh well!!
Better get out your B787 manuals boys and girls.
Geez I'm glad I am not a member of AIPA. Poor bastards just can't see the writing's on the wall can they?
Oh well!!
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What stunning failure? 36 J seats 2 Perth/Melbourne/Sydney/Cairns always over the top + 100's of Y full.
OK, I'll be more specific. The A330 model failed miserably on the SYD-MEL-BNE triangle, where frequency and turn around times were a vital consideration. Too long to load, too long to turn around.
PER/CNS routes aren't required to have the quick turn around times.
OK, I'll be more specific. The A330 model failed miserably on the SYD-MEL-BNE triangle, where frequency and turn around times were a vital consideration. Too long to load, too long to turn around.
PER/CNS routes aren't required to have the quick turn around times.
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Quick Questions...
Does anybody have an idea as to whether the route from Aus to Europe, eg SYD-LHR requires flight over the high MSA sectors in order to make it all the way to LHR? It could be argued the 777 looks like it will do the job, but, will maintaining the MSA on single engine be a factor to rule it out in favour of a A345/A346 which can hold a higher Alt with one engine inop?
Anyone know how the 777 travels on one eng? There doesn't seem to be any 777's doing the SIN - LHR or HKG - LHR etc at the moment, all aircraft seem to have 4 engines.
Thoughts? Thanks all...
WP.
Anyone know how the 777 travels on one eng? There doesn't seem to be any 777's doing the SIN - LHR or HKG - LHR etc at the moment, all aircraft seem to have 4 engines.
Thoughts? Thanks all...
WP.
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The 777-300ER is used by Air France between Singapore and Paris, and will be used by AF on Paris to Hong Kong.
Singapore Airlines are using 777-200ERs on SIn to Amsterdam and some other Europeans cities. BA has used the 777-200ER between London and Kuala Lumpur.
Singapore Airlines are using 777-200ERs on SIn to Amsterdam and some other Europeans cities. BA has used the 777-200ER between London and Kuala Lumpur.
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W_P,
As the rules exist today, there are portions of the world where the big twins are hampered and a/c with >2 engines are required.
It's not necessarily the safety heights which are the problem. The ETOPS imposition of a combined engine failure/depressurisation event is what snookers them.
Thus [if MD-11 fans will forgive me], although the B777 family may be the twin of choice in this race, any serious world contender will have the B747-xx?? and A340 family in their arsenal to cover the ETOPS holes.
G'day
As the rules exist today, there are portions of the world where the big twins are hampered and a/c with >2 engines are required.
It's not necessarily the safety heights which are the problem. The ETOPS imposition of a combined engine failure/depressurisation event is what snookers them.
Thus [if MD-11 fans will forgive me], although the B777 family may be the twin of choice in this race, any serious world contender will have the B747-xx?? and A340 family in their arsenal to cover the ETOPS holes.
G'day