Anyone Got an Opinion of Tobago's?
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sunny Melbourne
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Haven't got a huge amount of time in one but IMHO:
Pros - Sporting looking plane, good TAS (120), has a CSU, huge tail gives it a 25 KNT max xwind comp, decent fuel consumption (about 40L/h which is not bad when compared to a 36l/h Warrior with a TAS more like 105).
Cons - Glides like a brick, panel looks and feels like a VK Commodore.
Pros - Sporting looking plane, good TAS (120), has a CSU, huge tail gives it a 25 KNT max xwind comp, decent fuel consumption (about 40L/h which is not bad when compared to a 36l/h Warrior with a TAS more like 105).
Cons - Glides like a brick, panel looks and feels like a VK Commodore.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 299
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tobago's and Trinidads are a nice aircraft for touring easy to fly with comfortable seats so you don't get a numb bum on the longer sectors and most of the ones you will find in oz are post 1985 and usually with a well equiped panel. for trips of 1500 nm + you might want to crunch the numbers to see if a faster plane will work out cheeper (trinidad, bonza, 210).
Cons - stupid barrel type engine instruments, make sure the cht and oil presure are servicable - The glide performance is not impresive particularly if your used to cessna's so I would recomend a few practise forced landings before you go !
Hot cabin particularly on the ground, you can taxi with a door ajar but make sure some one is holding on to it and make dam sure you close it before to take off (bae at tamworth had a student put one in a padock because the door departed after take off).
I wouldn't think of these cons as reasons not to use a tobago though just issues to consider, I'd take a tobago over a pa 28 or a 172 any day.
Cons - stupid barrel type engine instruments, make sure the cht and oil presure are servicable - The glide performance is not impresive particularly if your used to cessna's so I would recomend a few practise forced landings before you go !
Hot cabin particularly on the ground, you can taxi with a door ajar but make sure some one is holding on to it and make dam sure you close it before to take off (bae at tamworth had a student put one in a padock because the door departed after take off).
I wouldn't think of these cons as reasons not to use a tobago though just issues to consider, I'd take a tobago over a pa 28 or a 172 any day.
I have ~500hr too many in them.
What I didn't like:
* Inside door handle positioned in exactly the right place to annoy my knee.
* Seat couldn't go back far enough (I'm 6')
* Poor ventilation. One(!) eyeball vent per person. In summer. In Oz. Can taxi with the door unlatched but awkward & heavy to hold onto.
* Lots of glass - including a fairly heavily raked windscreen - makes the a/c a greenhouse. I seem to recall the door windows wrapped over a little bit too.
* Unpleasant control harmony. Heavy in roll, rather light in yaw. The control column is highly geared because full throw needs to be limited to give room for your knees/thighs.
* Awful vis. over the nose for a flapless landing.
* Glides nearly as well as a brick.
* Uncomfortable seat.
* Lacks headroom. I had to slump a bit. I believe there's a mod. or option for a lower seat. Must do wonders for vis. over the nose...
* Slow for the HP. A bit over 120kts at 75% power on book figures. For a 180 HP engine. A C172RG does more than that on ~65%.
* Not exactly a short field a/c.
* Instrument panel sectioning uses up valuable panel space unnecessarily compared to a large flat expanse. A problem only if you want to add more avionics.
* Trim wheel design is unpleasant after prolonged use.
Can't remember my other gripes with the type. It was nearly 10 years ago since I last flew one.
What I didn't like:
* Inside door handle positioned in exactly the right place to annoy my knee.
* Seat couldn't go back far enough (I'm 6')
* Poor ventilation. One(!) eyeball vent per person. In summer. In Oz. Can taxi with the door unlatched but awkward & heavy to hold onto.
* Lots of glass - including a fairly heavily raked windscreen - makes the a/c a greenhouse. I seem to recall the door windows wrapped over a little bit too.
* Unpleasant control harmony. Heavy in roll, rather light in yaw. The control column is highly geared because full throw needs to be limited to give room for your knees/thighs.
* Awful vis. over the nose for a flapless landing.
* Glides nearly as well as a brick.
* Uncomfortable seat.
* Lacks headroom. I had to slump a bit. I believe there's a mod. or option for a lower seat. Must do wonders for vis. over the nose...
* Slow for the HP. A bit over 120kts at 75% power on book figures. For a 180 HP engine. A C172RG does more than that on ~65%.
* Not exactly a short field a/c.
* Instrument panel sectioning uses up valuable panel space unnecessarily compared to a large flat expanse. A problem only if you want to add more avionics.
* Trim wheel design is unpleasant after prolonged use.
Can't remember my other gripes with the type. It was nearly 10 years ago since I last flew one.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: middleofthehighway
Posts: 426
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tobago.....Fantastic!
Best Aircraft to do training in...IMHO.
Cons: During any kind of turbulence, your head will hit the roof... and not in a soft spot either.... (the roof, not your head)
Dog
Best Aircraft to do training in...IMHO.
Cons: During any kind of turbulence, your head will hit the roof... and not in a soft spot either.... (the roof, not your head)
Dog
French Aircraft ...........................says it all.
20 hrs in the Trinidad, not bad but not a nice plane to hand fly.
Did 0.6 in a Tobago and was 0.6 too long. Horrible airoplane, no redeeming features. Only Marginally better that teh T tail Arrow.
A380................. worlds Ugliest aircraft.
20 hrs in the Trinidad, not bad but not a nice plane to hand fly.
Did 0.6 in a Tobago and was 0.6 too long. Horrible airoplane, no redeeming features. Only Marginally better that teh T tail Arrow.
A380................. worlds Ugliest aircraft.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As far as touring goes it depends on what you are willing to pay for.
Pros
Something that is modern, comfortable (for people under 6 foot), possible IFR rated (handy but not recommeded), handled night VFR flights with plenty of ease, loved the cross wind capability, and from my experience has good reviews from pax (flew from brisbane to longreach)
Cons
Seems to have a fairly expensive hourly hire rate, tas at only 120kts at best (i found it doesn't really like the hotter weather), definately needs rudder trim, doors are more for noviety not practibility, fuel consumption is nothing spectacular considering tas, did i mention it needed rudder trim
I may be able to dig up some loading stats if needed
I guess it is a comprimise between hourly rate and comfort. I would probably opt of a 182rg
Pros
Something that is modern, comfortable (for people under 6 foot), possible IFR rated (handy but not recommeded), handled night VFR flights with plenty of ease, loved the cross wind capability, and from my experience has good reviews from pax (flew from brisbane to longreach)
Cons
Seems to have a fairly expensive hourly hire rate, tas at only 120kts at best (i found it doesn't really like the hotter weather), definately needs rudder trim, doors are more for noviety not practibility, fuel consumption is nothing spectacular considering tas, did i mention it needed rudder trim
I may be able to dig up some loading stats if needed
I guess it is a comprimise between hourly rate and comfort. I would probably opt of a 182rg
Don Quixote Impersonator
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Australia
Age: 77
Posts: 3,403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dunno 'bout the Tobago, but the Trinidad is a really great aircraft.
Traded one some moons ago and recovered it from Halls Creek via Perth to Syd almost non stop, had the most fun sitting down for several days and a great touring machine, including the standard arrival at Bankstown in the middle of the Summer thunderys.
Very comfortable, intuitive controls positioning and everything European style fell comfortably to hand.
Not good in ice but then you're not supposed to be there and glide, schlide you do the best you can.
You wanna efficient airframe and slippery doodle speed, ya don't get Schweizer glide, ya don't don't design it to be excellent without the engine, that's not the point of it is it ?
And anyway that is why God invented 'hats' terry towelling for the use of.
and the view is magnificent.
BTW ya gotta go see the movie "Wolfe Creek", flew a cuppla circuits round inside it in a Trinidad, pretty cool but I never imagined it could produce a movie like it,
Traded one some moons ago and recovered it from Halls Creek via Perth to Syd almost non stop, had the most fun sitting down for several days and a great touring machine, including the standard arrival at Bankstown in the middle of the Summer thunderys.
Very comfortable, intuitive controls positioning and everything European style fell comfortably to hand.
Not good in ice but then you're not supposed to be there and glide, schlide you do the best you can.
You wanna efficient airframe and slippery doodle speed, ya don't get Schweizer glide, ya don't don't design it to be excellent without the engine, that's not the point of it is it ?
And anyway that is why God invented 'hats' terry towelling for the use of.
and the view is magnificent.BTW ya gotta go see the movie "Wolfe Creek", flew a cuppla circuits round inside it in a Trinidad, pretty cool but I never imagined it could produce a movie like it,
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Low Places
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just my opinion
Cramped cockpit even for lilolme
Poor level of fitout,bits fall off
A bit twitchy for hand flying long trips
Expensive for the space and speed,
Do yourself a favour and get a bonanza endorsement or for a little more space try a saratoga.If thats over the top 172 xp boring but practical I know.
An auto pilot is a good Idea so you can see more of the scenery otherwise take a 2nd officer and a stewardess to get the drinks.
If you plan to use an autopilot learn to use it before you go.They sometimes have hidden traps.
Cramped cockpit even for lilolme
Poor level of fitout,bits fall off
A bit twitchy for hand flying long trips
Expensive for the space and speed,
Do yourself a favour and get a bonanza endorsement or for a little more space try a saratoga.If thats over the top 172 xp boring but practical I know.
An auto pilot is a good Idea so you can see more of the scenery otherwise take a 2nd officer and a stewardess to get the drinks.
If you plan to use an autopilot learn to use it before you go.They sometimes have hidden traps.
PPRuNeaholic
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Cairns FNQ
Posts: 3,255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've never flown either the Tobboggan or the Trinidad but I know a bit about flying long distance in single engined aeroplanes... from me youth, ya understand! 
In those days when I didn't know anything about 2-crew ops, CRM etc., I found distinct advantage in having a second pilot and someone in the back to hand out the inflight refreshments!
The second pilot can relieve the first pilot, from time to time. Flying leg for leg is also good for developing teamwork and the basics of CRM. But it can be a real long time between refuelling (and relief) stops, so best to plan for all those eventualities.
No matter what type of aircraft you decide to use for a long trip, Sunfish, ensure that your planning goes beyond the aircraft's flight plan.
In those days when I didn't know anything about 2-crew ops, CRM etc., I found distinct advantage in having a second pilot and someone in the back to hand out the inflight refreshments! The second pilot can relieve the first pilot, from time to time. Flying leg for leg is also good for developing teamwork and the basics of CRM. But it can be a real long time between refuelling (and relief) stops, so best to plan for all those eventualities.
No matter what type of aircraft you decide to use for a long trip, Sunfish, ensure that your planning goes beyond the aircraft's flight plan.
Tobagos, are they the ones going cheap (like about $50 k or less) in Aviation Trader all the time? If so, are they a good buy or should they be avoided in favour of a similarly priced Cessna or whatever?
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Conventia, the convention hall planet
Age: 42
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For my money, and if I can find one, I go Mooney. the J model I have flown is a fantastic piece of metal - with oxy it'll TAS 170 @ FL 150 - alt tends to be limited by TIT though. Fuel flow around 40- plus GST. One piece main spar for peace of mind, tubular frame makes it both sturdy and heavy. Having said that, it'll still take four fat f#@ks with gear and enough fuel to go from, say, Kunners to Broome with alternate in crappy weather.
Being turboed and slippery, it takes planning to get down right, but a genuinely fun ac to fly.
Being turboed and slippery, it takes planning to get down right, but a genuinely fun ac to fly.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Eastern Oz
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Arm out the window
This mob seem to be the appointed dealer for Australia
http://www.rgmaviation.com/planes.asp
This mob seem to be the appointed dealer for Australia
http://www.rgmaviation.com/planes.asp
Show lover,
The J model Mooney 201 (M20J) is normally aspirated. You must be referring to a K model (M20K) 231 or even a 252, which are both turbo charged.
All excellent touring aircraft.
The J model Mooney 201 (M20J) is normally aspirated. You must be referring to a K model (M20K) 231 or even a 252, which are both turbo charged.
All excellent touring aircraft.