Pet Hate - "Go Ahead"
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Calcutta
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pet Hate - "Go Ahead"
Rant switch on...
Recently I've been exposed to a sector where an expectation to get the star issued on frequency transfer is given. i.e. "VOZXXX Contanct centre XXX.XX, expect star clnc".
Why about 8 out of 10 times do pilots call and say "go ahead" after transfer. Yes, you are ready and I know that; it's SOP... it's just wasted words... Sometimes I'm not ready; the "Go ahead", kind of forces me into it or at least distracts me.
Perhaps we should revert to the other way; i.e. if you're not ready say "Centre QFAXXX, FLXXX, delay STAR CLNC" it would be a lot less wasted air time; and not distract me from other tasks, such as manipulating the FLOW Machine; or the FLOW; or any other ATC I'm talking to.
Remember about 20% of ATC task is talking on VHF; the majority of the rest is feeding the elephant or talking to someone else about feeding the elephant; ocassionally we get to plan too.
Rant switch off...
Recently I've been exposed to a sector where an expectation to get the star issued on frequency transfer is given. i.e. "VOZXXX Contanct centre XXX.XX, expect star clnc".
Why about 8 out of 10 times do pilots call and say "go ahead" after transfer. Yes, you are ready and I know that; it's SOP... it's just wasted words... Sometimes I'm not ready; the "Go ahead", kind of forces me into it or at least distracts me.
Perhaps we should revert to the other way; i.e. if you're not ready say "Centre QFAXXX, FLXXX, delay STAR CLNC" it would be a lot less wasted air time; and not distract me from other tasks, such as manipulating the FLOW Machine; or the FLOW; or any other ATC I'm talking to.
Remember about 20% of ATC task is talking on VHF; the majority of the rest is feeding the elephant or talking to someone else about feeding the elephant; ocassionally we get to plan too.
Rant switch off...
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Sydney
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have noticed over the last 12 months "go ahead" has been used and seems to be increasing in the Brissy sectors between Brisbane and Sydney for the STAR. I thought perhaps some overseas guys filtering back into Virgin/Jetstar used it O/S and as a habit used it here. Then others heard that and started copying the words. I agree, its use is redundant.. A little like saying "in cloud" on first contact with Approach controllers.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Established.
Age: 53
Posts: 658
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
.....no it is not an O/S thing it is an Oz thing just like every other trivial piece of crap that gets discussed here.
O/S people tend to just get on with it, rather than fill forums complaining about faff like how in India they give your SID clearance with your line up clearance or how the Indonesians clear you below transition but never include the QNH etc etc.
O/S people tend to just get on with it, rather than fill forums complaining about faff like how in India they give your SID clearance with your line up clearance or how the Indonesians clear you below transition but never include the QNH etc etc.
My pet hate? The words "roger that"! Why it is necessary to add "that" to "roger" I will never know. It's not just in aviation either, I hear it time & again in transmissions from emergency services.
DF.
DF.
My pet hate? The words "roger that"! Why it is necessary to add "that" to "roger" I will never know. It's not just in aviation either, I hear it time & again in transmissions from emergency services.
DF.
DF.
It had to be someone's fault!?!!
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: 1984
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good ones are:
"passing x thousand" in CTAF's and MBZ's - gee thats useful
ATC: "Alpha Bravo Charlie stand by"
ABC: "Standing by"
"Currently" or "Shortly"
- TC
'Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past'
"passing x thousand" in CTAF's and MBZ's - gee thats useful
ATC: "Alpha Bravo Charlie stand by"
ABC: "Standing by"
"Currently" or "Shortly"
- TC
'Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past'
Bottums Up
VVS Laxman
Guilty as charged, well, almost. I'll often call at the designated point and apend the call with "ready to copy".
Why? Because I've lost count of the number of times the transfer instruction has included "expect STAR clearance".
Then, when making the call as per the AIP, the response from ATS is, "STAR clearance available", which then requires a "go ahead".
From where I sit, it seems that it'd be sensible to proscribe the issuance of a STAR clearance at 150ish nm, so that pillots are ready to write it down, and ATCOs know we'll be ready to write it down, and they'll avoid reading it out, only to have a pillot say, "say again" once they've got the biro out.
Guilty as charged, well, almost. I'll often call at the designated point and apend the call with "ready to copy".
Why? Because I've lost count of the number of times the transfer instruction has included "expect STAR clearance".
Then, when making the call as per the AIP, the response from ATS is, "STAR clearance available", which then requires a "go ahead".
From where I sit, it seems that it'd be sensible to proscribe the issuance of a STAR clearance at 150ish nm, so that pillots are ready to write it down, and ATCOs know we'll be ready to write it down, and they'll avoid reading it out, only to have a pillot say, "say again" once they've got the biro out.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NZ
Posts: 835
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You shouldn't have to check that a pilot is ready before issuing a STAR or any other clearance. As soon as the relevant callsign is heard one should be ready to copy a clearance, there are very few excuses I can think of. Likewise, I don't give a controller a heads-up if I have a request (although some people seem to insist on clogging the airways), If the controller misses it for some reason (and they DO have numerous excuses as stated above) there's not much more airtime used in repeating it, as long as it's all done in a concise manor as it should be.
How long does it take to retrieve one's biro from one's top pocket? If you're chaging frequencies you will be ready to write something down anyway.
How long does it take to retrieve one's biro from one's top pocket? If you're chaging frequencies you will be ready to write something down anyway.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: australia
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
vvs, I agree it is annoying as hell but if your going to winge about that what about when you get a transfer than a star with no warning, no real prob as cloud cutter said but the jepps say....
The other day we got handed over from one ML CTR bloke to the next, without the usual "expect STAR clearance" on the end.
Straight up we were issued the STAR clearance on first contact with the next controller. I didn't have the pen and paper ready but how hard is it to remember and read back "Rivet 8 arrival, runway 34L, FL370" or something of the like.
Its nice to get the "expect STAR clearance" so everyone tunes in and listens closely, but do you really need to say "go ahead"?
TL
Straight up we were issued the STAR clearance on first contact with the next controller. I didn't have the pen and paper ready but how hard is it to remember and read back "Rivet 8 arrival, runway 34L, FL370" or something of the like.
Its nice to get the "expect STAR clearance" so everyone tunes in and listens closely, but do you really need to say "go ahead"?
TL
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: UAE
Age: 48
Posts: 447
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a controller who both issues STARs and says 'expect STAR clearance', I think it is a great way of reducing the RT we have to deal with. It is the best way to get around the fact that ATC must tell the aircraft that the STAR is available.
I don't care if the aircrew say "go ahead" or not on first contact. If they do, I launch straight into it. If they don't say it, I say "VOZ123, Melbourne Centre, STAR clearance NAREL 2 runway.......".
Cheers,
NFR.
I don't care if the aircrew say "go ahead" or not on first contact. If they do, I launch straight into it. If they don't say it, I say "VOZ123, Melbourne Centre, STAR clearance NAREL 2 runway.......".
Cheers,
NFR.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Perth
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
About a month ago, inbound to Perth in the afternoon/evening, we were issued with our STAR, when 1 of the "Big 2" airlines calls up to request direct tracking to Haigh ...... as they were running late!!! What the!!!!...
He was advised by ATC...'Negative... your number 5 in the sequence....follow the STAR...'
He was advised by ATC...'Negative... your number 5 in the sequence....follow the STAR...'
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: UAE
Age: 55
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So how do you feel about an aircraft giving a position report without prior notice? Do you find yourself looking for a pen, putting down the coffee, and ignore the supervisor ranting over your shoulder.
'Bout the same as an unexpected star being delivered, putting down coffee, picking up flightplan, grabbing pen, stopping fllight attendant from yabbering - then I can listen and confirm without embarrassment. I'm fairly simple, but give me less distractions and I get better!
'Bout the same as an unexpected star being delivered, putting down coffee, picking up flightplan, grabbing pen, stopping fllight attendant from yabbering - then I can listen and confirm without embarrassment. I'm fairly simple, but give me less distractions and I get better!
Nunc est bibendum
when 1 of the "Big 2" airlines calls up to request direct tracking to Haigh ...... as they were running late!!!
Additionally, the company will occasionally tell ATC what the preferred priority is for departures if the ramp is full and a bunch of a/c are trying to get away at the same time as often happens at the end of a T/S.
There are a lot of contributors to this thread being a lot more precious than QF drivers are often accused of being!
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wheelabarrowback
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
.
All the f**kwits that jump onto someone when they ask a question that would be quite serious and relevant to them. However trivail it may seem to the rest All the "experts" jump on them from the peanut gallery. Probably someone who was once/is in the same boat as them but actually had the balls to post a thread, and ask for some help and advice.