Doco/Reality Show about Spitfire - ABC Sept 1st
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Doco/Reality Show about Spitfire - ABC Sept 1st
Hello all,
for anyone interested in this sort of thing, the ABC will be showing a part-documentary, part reality show about Spitfires. As well as showing some of the history of the aircraft and commentary from vets, modern-day pilots will compete to have a chance at learning to fly a Spitfire in "combat", with only 9 hours of instruction - the same as a pilot would have got during the war.
Sounds like interesting stuff, will run over four weeks i believe...
Check it out 8:30pm Thurs Sept 1st (or check local guide for time in your state)
SS
From the ABC website:
for anyone interested in this sort of thing, the ABC will be showing a part-documentary, part reality show about Spitfires. As well as showing some of the history of the aircraft and commentary from vets, modern-day pilots will compete to have a chance at learning to fly a Spitfire in "combat", with only 9 hours of instruction - the same as a pilot would have got during the war.
Sounds like interesting stuff, will run over four weeks i believe...
Check it out 8:30pm Thurs Sept 1st (or check local guide for time in your state)
SS
From the ABC website:
Spitfire Ace
First Of The Few
8:30pm Thursday, September 1, 2005
Not just a celebration of the iconic emblem of the Battle of Britain, Spitfire Ace, also has an element of reality TV.
While the famous fighter plane takes centre stage, the program also tests modern-day pilots in WWII conditions as four young aviators compete for a nine-hour training course in a rare two-seater Spitfire.
Nine hours of operational training is all a Battle of Britain pilot would have received before he faced the might of Hitler's dreaded Luftwaffe.
This glorious four-part series features dramatic footage of the mother of all aerial battles, but the real stars are the veteran pilots and their heroic accounts are compelling.
The modern-day pilots are instructed by Brian O'Brian, a dashing figure with flowing hair and a spotted cravat, and Carolyn Grace, who owns the two-seater training Spitfire.
Carolyn has her own poignant story and she is the only woman in the world qualified to pilot the fighter. "Learning to fly the Spitfire after other planes is like comparing a VW Beetle to a Formula One car," she says. "It is hard to handle and a major responsibility to fly."
The plane itself claimed the first Spitfire "kill" over the beaches of Normandy on D-Day. It made 176 operational sorties but always managed to avoid serious damage.
The four young volunteers (John Sweet, Ben Westoby-Brooks, David Mallon and Christian Baker) are first put through their paces in a Tiger Moth - the plane used for preliminary training by the Battle of Britain pilots.
The two strongest pilots then get the chance to fulfil every young boy's dream - to fly a Spitfire for themselves. The 21st-century Spitfire class is then narrowed down to just one pilot who goes on to learn how to fly a Spitfire in combat - quite a prize.
Documentary Subtitles CC PG
First Of The Few
8:30pm Thursday, September 1, 2005
Not just a celebration of the iconic emblem of the Battle of Britain, Spitfire Ace, also has an element of reality TV.
While the famous fighter plane takes centre stage, the program also tests modern-day pilots in WWII conditions as four young aviators compete for a nine-hour training course in a rare two-seater Spitfire.
Nine hours of operational training is all a Battle of Britain pilot would have received before he faced the might of Hitler's dreaded Luftwaffe.
This glorious four-part series features dramatic footage of the mother of all aerial battles, but the real stars are the veteran pilots and their heroic accounts are compelling.
The modern-day pilots are instructed by Brian O'Brian, a dashing figure with flowing hair and a spotted cravat, and Carolyn Grace, who owns the two-seater training Spitfire.
Carolyn has her own poignant story and she is the only woman in the world qualified to pilot the fighter. "Learning to fly the Spitfire after other planes is like comparing a VW Beetle to a Formula One car," she says. "It is hard to handle and a major responsibility to fly."
The plane itself claimed the first Spitfire "kill" over the beaches of Normandy on D-Day. It made 176 operational sorties but always managed to avoid serious damage.
The four young volunteers (John Sweet, Ben Westoby-Brooks, David Mallon and Christian Baker) are first put through their paces in a Tiger Moth - the plane used for preliminary training by the Battle of Britain pilots.
The two strongest pilots then get the chance to fulfil every young boy's dream - to fly a Spitfire for themselves. The 21st-century Spitfire class is then narrowed down to just one pilot who goes on to learn how to fly a Spitfire in combat - quite a prize.
Documentary Subtitles CC PG
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This series ran in the US a while ago. Nice air to air and cockpit footage interspersed with PAINFULLY drawn out talking head stuff. My advice is to record it, and when watching it later FF through the waffle. I do not mean to take anything away from the vets featured in the series, those gents have my utmost admiration. It was more the OTT narration that grated on me.
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The measure of success as a fighter pilot in that conflict was the number of "kills".
Compare the number of "kills" the top luftwaffe pilots attained compared to the to Allies totals. In the hundreds. The top allied score, 38 from memory.
It would appear the luftwaffe pilots were not so much affected by "battle fatigue" and really built up much experience in air combat.
No wonder their "kill" rate was so high when pilots with as little as nine hours ops training were pitted against them, and then when the ones that survived were getting a bit of experience they were pulled from the line for a "rest".
Prospector
Compare the number of "kills" the top luftwaffe pilots attained compared to the to Allies totals. In the hundreds. The top allied score, 38 from memory.
It would appear the luftwaffe pilots were not so much affected by "battle fatigue" and really built up much experience in air combat.
No wonder their "kill" rate was so high when pilots with as little as nine hours ops training were pitted against them, and then when the ones that survived were getting a bit of experience they were pulled from the line for a "rest".
Prospector
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come again?
prospector, you have some errors in your claims there. The German pilots were more experienced from earlier campaigns, mainly the Condor legion in Spain, so initially they did have the upper hand. However if you look at the record of "kill ratio" in the Battle of Britian, the RAF had a slightly better record, even with the inexperienced pilots of the RAF.
The Germans were as affected by "battle fatigue" as anyone else, but their policy at the time was to keep flying combat until they were either killed, shot down or injured. That also explains why some of the Luftwaffe pilots had over 100 kills, I think the top guy had something like 328. Your right about the top allied pilot, 38 enemy aircraft, Air Vice Marshal J.E "Johnny" Johnson, who recently passed away. He was never shot down, never even a bullet hole in his aircraft, and all his kills were enemy fighters, which is another difference with alot of the Germans, who shot down allied bombers in great numbers.
The spitfire show sounds interesting, I personally would give my left one to fly a spitfire!
Nosey
The Germans were as affected by "battle fatigue" as anyone else, but their policy at the time was to keep flying combat until they were either killed, shot down or injured. That also explains why some of the Luftwaffe pilots had over 100 kills, I think the top guy had something like 328. Your right about the top allied pilot, 38 enemy aircraft, Air Vice Marshal J.E "Johnny" Johnson, who recently passed away. He was never shot down, never even a bullet hole in his aircraft, and all his kills were enemy fighters, which is another difference with alot of the Germans, who shot down allied bombers in great numbers.
The spitfire show sounds interesting, I personally would give my left one to fly a spitfire!
Nosey
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Nosegear,
Was not my intent to make claims as such, the figures speak for themselves, many Luftwaffe pilots had scores of over 100, very few allied pilots had scores near 30, and even fewer more than 30. That is fact. The reasons that these figures are as they are would fill many pages and never come to a conclusion that everybody could accept!!!
It is however a very good example of the value of experience, as many of these luftwaffe pilots were still alive at the end of the war.
Prospector
Was not my intent to make claims as such, the figures speak for themselves, many Luftwaffe pilots had scores of over 100, very few allied pilots had scores near 30, and even fewer more than 30. That is fact. The reasons that these figures are as they are would fill many pages and never come to a conclusion that everybody could accept!!!
It is however a very good example of the value of experience, as many of these luftwaffe pilots were still alive at the end of the war.
Prospector
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...and we worked with a few (RNZAF types)in the dungdusting industry didnt we prospector?
They all had one thing in common....christ they could drink piss!
Remember old Tony Glwascki? (sp) they reckon the only reason he never got shot down was he couldnt fly straight and level..
They all had one thing in common....christ they could drink piss!
Remember old Tony Glwascki? (sp) they reckon the only reason he never got shot down was he couldnt fly straight and level..
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Not quite true Tinny, he was shot down once by a 109.
He finished the war with a score of 8 confirmed, 3 probable, and 3 damaged.
Flying with Tony was an experience to be remembered, he certainly let the aircraft know who was the boss.
He finished the war with a score of 8 confirmed, 3 probable, and 3 damaged.
Flying with Tony was an experience to be remembered, he certainly let the aircraft know who was the boss.
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"Apples and oranges" really.
I would never stick my neck out by claiming that either Allied or Axis pilots were generally any better than each other, most literature, and opinions I have had from those were involved suggests things were very close indeed.
To put it in perspective the large Luftwaffe totals were in most cases made largely from the Russian front - known affectionately as the "the meat market" by Luftwaffe fighter pilots in 42-43'. Experienced luftwaffe fighter pilots with every advantage were slaughtering inexperienced Russian pilots in obselete types such as the biplane Polikarpovs. As another poster pointed out, when faced with an equal enemy the ratios were very similar, and the Luftwaffe also suffered high loss rates later in the war when they too had mostly inexperienced pilots.
Having known a few who flew Spits, Typhoons etc, I remember they expressed respect for their adversaries and with the passage of time (and dare I say some maturing) wished only that they had met them in less aggressive situations. One decorated kiwi RAF Spit ace I knew made the point that often the difference between being an "ace" and dead was nothing more than pure dumb luck and claimed some of the best pilots he ever served with died without "kills" through lack of confirmation or misfortune, etc.
Still like to fly that Spitfire though!
I would never stick my neck out by claiming that either Allied or Axis pilots were generally any better than each other, most literature, and opinions I have had from those were involved suggests things were very close indeed.
To put it in perspective the large Luftwaffe totals were in most cases made largely from the Russian front - known affectionately as the "the meat market" by Luftwaffe fighter pilots in 42-43'. Experienced luftwaffe fighter pilots with every advantage were slaughtering inexperienced Russian pilots in obselete types such as the biplane Polikarpovs. As another poster pointed out, when faced with an equal enemy the ratios were very similar, and the Luftwaffe also suffered high loss rates later in the war when they too had mostly inexperienced pilots.
Having known a few who flew Spits, Typhoons etc, I remember they expressed respect for their adversaries and with the passage of time (and dare I say some maturing) wished only that they had met them in less aggressive situations. One decorated kiwi RAF Spit ace I knew made the point that often the difference between being an "ace" and dead was nothing more than pure dumb luck and claimed some of the best pilots he ever served with died without "kills" through lack of confirmation or misfortune, etc.
Still like to fly that Spitfire though!
Last edited by El Oso; 27th Aug 2005 at 05:42.
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tinpis....
You obviously have not got a clue who Carolyn Grace is, perhaps you should have before making such a dumb posting...
Yes its this sort of drivel that gives the game away.............
"Learning to fly the Spitfire after other planes is like comparing a VW Beetle to a Formula One car," she says. "It is hard to handle and a major responsibility to fly."
You obviously have not got a clue who Carolyn Grace is, perhaps you should have before making such a dumb posting...
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You obviously have not got a clue who Carolyn Grace is
I do know a few Spitfire pilots who all speak of the aircraft in glowing terms but most would say
"It is hard to handle and a major responsibility to fly."
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Well there you go, keeping the dream alive.
Still think it was a bit OTT, but then if you are trying to scare money out of the punters then I suppose a bit of showmanship doesn't go astray.
Cheers,
Dumber
Still think it was a bit OTT, but then if you are trying to scare money out of the punters then I suppose a bit of showmanship doesn't go astray.
Cheers,
Dumber
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tinpis,
Did you follow that link from ops normal?? The spitfire in question was John Houlton's machine for a time. He was working for Thames Aerial Topdressing, based at Dargaville, when I was at Kaipara Flats.
He was instrumental, along with Don Hutton, in setting up the first Agricultural Pilot"s Association. Had the first meeting at Wanganui 63 or 64 or thereabouts. Really put the cat among the pidgeons, nearly everyone that attended was sacked, but as it was the majority of the pilots we were reinstated quite quickly.
Prospector
Did you follow that link from ops normal?? The spitfire in question was John Houlton's machine for a time. He was working for Thames Aerial Topdressing, based at Dargaville, when I was at Kaipara Flats.
He was instrumental, along with Don Hutton, in setting up the first Agricultural Pilot"s Association. Had the first meeting at Wanganui 63 or 64 or thereabouts. Really put the cat among the pidgeons, nearly everyone that attended was sacked, but as it was the majority of the pilots we were reinstated quite quickly.
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my understanding is that relative to the types of the day the spit (marks II up to IX) were pretty nice to handle, The late Mark Hanna mentioned in an interview that it was a very harmonious and "talkative" aircraft to fly, letting you know well in advance of when it was going to depart _ the example spoken about was pulling a hard turn and accelerated stall. It is a given that it is a high performance aircraft.
Not withstanding the ergonomic mess of the cockpit, Hanna mentions that it was not really all that bad, and was certainly better designed for handling forgivness than the 109's he had flown, easier to land, a no surprise stall and so forth, its all relative of course, but apparently the spit practically YELLS at you to ease off , where as the first you know about it in a 109 is you're on your back, or worse still flick you into a spin in the opposite direction you were going in.
I hasten to add, it is of course , all relative.
Not withstanding the ergonomic mess of the cockpit, Hanna mentions that it was not really all that bad, and was certainly better designed for handling forgivness than the 109's he had flown, easier to land, a no surprise stall and so forth, its all relative of course, but apparently the spit practically YELLS at you to ease off , where as the first you know about it in a 109 is you're on your back, or worse still flick you into a spin in the opposite direction you were going in.
I hasten to add, it is of course , all relative.
Silly Old Git
Thanks for that prospector..er shucks thats goin back a bit innit?
Just as an aside I saw a little while ago another old Robbies duster pilot Brian Thornton belting around kiwi in his new P51 Mustang ?
Good to see someone made a quid
Just as an aside I saw a little while ago another old Robbies duster pilot Brian Thornton belting around kiwi in his new P51 Mustang ?
Good to see someone made a quid
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tinnie me old, welcome back.
There's something I've been missing all these years that I've only just thunk out.
Most of the seriously good and therefore seriously expensive warbirds are owned by croppies or ex croppies.
Ergo croppies have made, are making a shovel full or two in aviation, which as you are well aware is against some several dozen laws, regulations, orders, CAAPs or the other.
Therefore the evidence suggests that the carefully crafted downhome 'n dusty, @rse hanging out of trousers characters, superbly maintained machines disguised as something out of an Alby Mangels spectacular being flown like they stole it image has worked.
1. Regulators are too scared/intimidated to go near em
2. Tax man can't find anyone on staff who can outdrink em.
3. They dont have to carry SLF
3. We get to see fantastic gear and we all win.
There's something I've been missing all these years that I've only just thunk out.
Most of the seriously good and therefore seriously expensive warbirds are owned by croppies or ex croppies.
Ergo croppies have made, are making a shovel full or two in aviation, which as you are well aware is against some several dozen laws, regulations, orders, CAAPs or the other.
Therefore the evidence suggests that the carefully crafted downhome 'n dusty, @rse hanging out of trousers characters, superbly maintained machines disguised as something out of an Alby Mangels spectacular being flown like they stole it image has worked.
1. Regulators are too scared/intimidated to go near em
2. Tax man can't find anyone on staff who can outdrink em.
3. They dont have to carry SLF
3. We get to see fantastic gear and we all win.