Twin at YMMB this afternoon?
Thread Starter
Twin at YMMB this afternoon?
Just wondering if things are OK and what the problem was? Twin at YMMB takes off about 3.20 this afternoon and then makes a request for an immediate return to the airfield with a sense of urgency. I zipped around a bit to get behind him so that he's #1.
Question:
1. Left oven or electric blanket on?
2. Car left unlocked?
3. Forgot passenger?
Just wondering.
Question:
1. Left oven or electric blanket on?
2. Car left unlocked?
3. Forgot passenger?
Just wondering.
Thread Starter
Actually No Chief Wiggum, but of course you don't detect flippancy do you?. I'd like to know the reason in the interests of improving my own miserable airmanship.
After hearing the call and identifying the aircraft crossing in front of me ( I was on Base for 17L and just about to throttle back) as the one in question, I watched him start a rather non standard approach to 17L and decided on my own volition to turn right, widen out and follow him, leaving him as #1, I told ATC as I was doing it.
Of course I could have continued on, minding my own business, thumb in bum and mind in neutral, until either this guy declared an emergency and/or ATC asked me to go around and get out of his way, however there was a certain urgency in this guys communication about his desire to get back on the ground real $%#ing quick, so I took action on my own.
I am simply trying to understand the correct procedures in such a situation and what actually happened? Furthermore I am concerned not to make work for ATC and not create any more risks for others by taking avoiding action and stuffing up their carefully choreographed pattern.
I am also learning that some people in GA will go to any lengths to avoid the paperwork and expense involved in doing such things as writing on maintenance releases and things like making PAN calls.
I also wonder what happens with this situation in the proposed new CTAF procedures?
Translation: Its not an idle question, Twit.
After hearing the call and identifying the aircraft crossing in front of me ( I was on Base for 17L and just about to throttle back) as the one in question, I watched him start a rather non standard approach to 17L and decided on my own volition to turn right, widen out and follow him, leaving him as #1, I told ATC as I was doing it.
Of course I could have continued on, minding my own business, thumb in bum and mind in neutral, until either this guy declared an emergency and/or ATC asked me to go around and get out of his way, however there was a certain urgency in this guys communication about his desire to get back on the ground real $%#ing quick, so I took action on my own.
I am simply trying to understand the correct procedures in such a situation and what actually happened? Furthermore I am concerned not to make work for ATC and not create any more risks for others by taking avoiding action and stuffing up their carefully choreographed pattern.
I am also learning that some people in GA will go to any lengths to avoid the paperwork and expense involved in doing such things as writing on maintenance releases and things like making PAN calls.
I also wonder what happens with this situation in the proposed new CTAF procedures?
Translation: Its not an idle question, Twit.
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Leaving a passenger behind, or forgetting to turn off the oven do not neccessitate a PAN call, or writing on the MR. This is why I referred to you as a twit.
Question is not Idle, your feeble attempted humourous answers are though.
Question is not Idle, your feeble attempted humourous answers are though.
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Question:
1. Left oven or electric blanket on?
2. Car left unlocked?
3. Forgot passenger?
Just wondering.
1. Left oven or electric blanket on?
2. Car left unlocked?
3. Forgot passenger?
Just wondering.
Thread Starter
The real question Chief, is what was the cause of the sudden need to return? Was it a safety matter and was it notifiable?
Then the further questions for a dumb ppl like me: What is the correct action to take when you are aware that someone is making an unusual request, in this case it was a request for an "immediate return to the airport" which sounded safety related considering the tone? It was obviously not a cheese sandwich left in the oven.
Do you sit there and ignore the other aircraft and wait for ATC to sort it out? As it turned out, I could probably have squeezed into YMMB before this fellow, but I didn't know how fast he was going to complete his turn and come back so I decided that since he requested an "immediate return" the proper thing to do was to get out of his way so that he was #1.
The other questions that concerns me is if I screwed up something else in doing so? What is the correct procedure for dealing with another aircrafts problems if one is in proximity?
Furthermore, how would this work in the new CTAF environment?
I know I am demonstrating my absolute lack of knowledge to a wide audience here, but I'm sick and tired of textbooks that don't give answers to simple questions and references to rules and regulations that are drafted in obscure legalese. If you want to know how model rules should look, find a copy of the international rules for the prevention of collision at sea.
Another case that concerns me - aircraft inbound for YMMB from Brighton when runway 31L or 35L is in use for outbound aircraft heading northwest. Outbound, One instructor sees no problem, an examiner on the other hand asks for a climb to 2000 ft ASAP to avoid the possibility of a head on.
To put it another way, there does not seem to be a lot of clarity in the rules and regulations, nor is information easy to find. The VFR guide is a step in the right direction, as is the Visual Pilot guide, the CD and the website. It would be useful if we had some supplement that covered radio procedure as well. But go ahead, I'm just a weekend Warrior driver.
Then the further questions for a dumb ppl like me: What is the correct action to take when you are aware that someone is making an unusual request, in this case it was a request for an "immediate return to the airport" which sounded safety related considering the tone? It was obviously not a cheese sandwich left in the oven.
Do you sit there and ignore the other aircraft and wait for ATC to sort it out? As it turned out, I could probably have squeezed into YMMB before this fellow, but I didn't know how fast he was going to complete his turn and come back so I decided that since he requested an "immediate return" the proper thing to do was to get out of his way so that he was #1.
The other questions that concerns me is if I screwed up something else in doing so? What is the correct procedure for dealing with another aircrafts problems if one is in proximity?
Furthermore, how would this work in the new CTAF environment?
I know I am demonstrating my absolute lack of knowledge to a wide audience here, but I'm sick and tired of textbooks that don't give answers to simple questions and references to rules and regulations that are drafted in obscure legalese. If you want to know how model rules should look, find a copy of the international rules for the prevention of collision at sea.
Another case that concerns me - aircraft inbound for YMMB from Brighton when runway 31L or 35L is in use for outbound aircraft heading northwest. Outbound, One instructor sees no problem, an examiner on the other hand asks for a climb to 2000 ft ASAP to avoid the possibility of a head on.
To put it another way, there does not seem to be a lot of clarity in the rules and regulations, nor is information easy to find. The VFR guide is a step in the right direction, as is the Visual Pilot guide, the CD and the website. It would be useful if we had some supplement that covered radio procedure as well. But go ahead, I'm just a weekend Warrior driver.
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The golden rule
Sunny,
The one rule that you should always follow, be it flying, driving a car or in a boat, that is AVOID AN ACCIDENT at all times.
If this guy was making a unusual approach and you take some avoiding action to provide seperation you did the right thing. Only thing you must not do is cross over the runway C/L and into another parallel runway approach. Bankstown Mid Air comes to mind. So be careful of any clearance restrictions.
But hey, if you kept an eye on him and did a go around with hime doing say a glide approach beneath you as you climb out Thats got tobe an acceptable outcome. I am sure if you read the regs you will find the AVOID A PRANG idea in there.
As for a CTAF you do not have a tower issueing a clearance so you can do what you like, just go around and don't hit anyone.
Don't make it all so hard for yourself, enjoy flying don't stress over it!
J
The one rule that you should always follow, be it flying, driving a car or in a boat, that is AVOID AN ACCIDENT at all times.
If this guy was making a unusual approach and you take some avoiding action to provide seperation you did the right thing. Only thing you must not do is cross over the runway C/L and into another parallel runway approach. Bankstown Mid Air comes to mind. So be careful of any clearance restrictions.
But hey, if you kept an eye on him and did a go around with hime doing say a glide approach beneath you as you climb out Thats got tobe an acceptable outcome. I am sure if you read the regs you will find the AVOID A PRANG idea in there.
As for a CTAF you do not have a tower issueing a clearance so you can do what you like, just go around and don't hit anyone.
Don't make it all so hard for yourself, enjoy flying don't stress over it!
J
