3 misconceptions about GA
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3 misconceptions about GA
Time to get this off my chest -
1 – There is no “brother-hood among pilots” or loyalty between pilots left out there. Being almost physically sickened by the responses I read on another post recently about one pilot “climbing over the top of his fellow pilots” in a bid to obtain a twin job makes me respond by saying that there is no real pact between pilots in GA or in most airlines. The fact is that Australian commercial pilots are almost programmed at birth to backstab, undercut and soil each others reputations in a bid climb up the career ladder. Then they cry foul and try and further destroy each other when someone actually steps up and has an upfront go at getting on with the job. For some reason, this is seen as going against the unwritten law of pilot ethics. The rehashed dribble about some poor grade 3 instructor at Bankstown not being allowed to progress because someone undercut him is just that. Dribble. Life is not a fair playing field so it’s time you all fought your own battles for employment and wages and stopped playing martyr for each other when it suits your mood. To prove my point, the total lack of loyalty to each other is why aviation is full of toothless, spineless unions who make noise and achieve not much else.
2 – Doing the “hard yards” out bush is an apprenticeship that must be served.
Again, this is the stuff of some romantic 1930’s era jungle pilot fantasy that suits the mood of the masses on the day and fits nicely into the day dreams of the hundreds of unemployed wannabe’s out there. Remote bush charter flying is a great place to learn the trade and is valuable for personal as well as technical skills development. However - It is not essential. Airline recruiters select the most suitable available candidates based on a range of skills, qualities and experience. Spending two years in some outback hole will not rate as highly as you might believe. It’s just a component of your overall background, balanced by other factors so I think it’s time we stopped rating each other on if someone has done bush time or not. Although it will carry some great memories and a few scares, you are probably lucky if you can avoid it in a career.
3 - Going against the grain will ruin your reputation in GA.
I have read too many posts saying that “if he works for that mob for free it will get around this airport and it will ruin his name and he will have no friends…boo hoo” Again, total Bull excrement. This again highlights the en masse, sheep like mentality of aussie pilots and is actually a great excuse to sit and grumble and wait in line for the world to turn your way. If I was out there on the hunt for flying work, I would be doing anything to get it as long as it was safe and legal to separate myself from the other mindless sheep and I certainly wouldn’t care about the opinions of a couple disgruntled casuals hanging around a hangar waiting for a charter to fall their way.
My advice - Get out there and get after it. I have never seen a decent, intelligent bloke get totally ruined by trying to get ahead quickly. Perhaps it is more honourable to fit with the non existent brotherhood mentality and wait like a starving dog for some scraps?
If a pilot can ruined by trying real hard, what’s that say about the state of things
There you go. Rant over. Take aim and fire away!
1 – There is no “brother-hood among pilots” or loyalty between pilots left out there. Being almost physically sickened by the responses I read on another post recently about one pilot “climbing over the top of his fellow pilots” in a bid to obtain a twin job makes me respond by saying that there is no real pact between pilots in GA or in most airlines. The fact is that Australian commercial pilots are almost programmed at birth to backstab, undercut and soil each others reputations in a bid climb up the career ladder. Then they cry foul and try and further destroy each other when someone actually steps up and has an upfront go at getting on with the job. For some reason, this is seen as going against the unwritten law of pilot ethics. The rehashed dribble about some poor grade 3 instructor at Bankstown not being allowed to progress because someone undercut him is just that. Dribble. Life is not a fair playing field so it’s time you all fought your own battles for employment and wages and stopped playing martyr for each other when it suits your mood. To prove my point, the total lack of loyalty to each other is why aviation is full of toothless, spineless unions who make noise and achieve not much else.
2 – Doing the “hard yards” out bush is an apprenticeship that must be served.
Again, this is the stuff of some romantic 1930’s era jungle pilot fantasy that suits the mood of the masses on the day and fits nicely into the day dreams of the hundreds of unemployed wannabe’s out there. Remote bush charter flying is a great place to learn the trade and is valuable for personal as well as technical skills development. However - It is not essential. Airline recruiters select the most suitable available candidates based on a range of skills, qualities and experience. Spending two years in some outback hole will not rate as highly as you might believe. It’s just a component of your overall background, balanced by other factors so I think it’s time we stopped rating each other on if someone has done bush time or not. Although it will carry some great memories and a few scares, you are probably lucky if you can avoid it in a career.
3 - Going against the grain will ruin your reputation in GA.
I have read too many posts saying that “if he works for that mob for free it will get around this airport and it will ruin his name and he will have no friends…boo hoo” Again, total Bull excrement. This again highlights the en masse, sheep like mentality of aussie pilots and is actually a great excuse to sit and grumble and wait in line for the world to turn your way. If I was out there on the hunt for flying work, I would be doing anything to get it as long as it was safe and legal to separate myself from the other mindless sheep and I certainly wouldn’t care about the opinions of a couple disgruntled casuals hanging around a hangar waiting for a charter to fall their way.
My advice - Get out there and get after it. I have never seen a decent, intelligent bloke get totally ruined by trying to get ahead quickly. Perhaps it is more honourable to fit with the non existent brotherhood mentality and wait like a starving dog for some scraps?
If a pilot can ruined by trying real hard, what’s that say about the state of things
There you go. Rant over. Take aim and fire away!
trying real hard 
Offering an overt bribe, as advertised last week strikes me as niether decent nor intelligent. He must have very little confidence in his abilities if he thinks that such ham-fisted techniques will get him the magic '500' that he is seeking. I am certain that he didn't expect the reaction he received to his advertisment, and regardless of its rights or wrongs, he has gained for himself a reputation as someone who displays little in the way tact and subtlety - possibly not something the most desparately cash-strapped employer seeks in a pilot.
I also have to wonder how this 'reward' would affect his professionalism once 'employed' because lets face it, an employer who accepts cash for employment is going to be the type that overloads aircraft, disregards F & D limits, and does not enter MR snags.
Offering an overt bribe, as advertised last week strikes me as niether decent nor intelligent. He must have very little confidence in his abilities if he thinks that such ham-fisted techniques will get him the magic '500' that he is seeking. I am certain that he didn't expect the reaction he received to his advertisment, and regardless of its rights or wrongs, he has gained for himself a reputation as someone who displays little in the way tact and subtlety - possibly not something the most desparately cash-strapped employer seeks in a pilot.
I also have to wonder how this 'reward' would affect his professionalism once 'employed' because lets face it, an employer who accepts cash for employment is going to be the type that overloads aircraft, disregards F & D limits, and does not enter MR snags.
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Slice. Watch it - you are getting close the bone, there. I suggest that 90 percent of GA operators avoid or subtly discourage pilots from writing up snags in the maintenance release. After all, that costs money...
That is just my point - as an employee it is up to you as to how much you want to resist the company pressure with regards to maintenance issues, but when you have paid to be there you are completely at their mercy!
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You have some very interesting opinions. Many of which I agree with.
My question though is about No. 2. Is it something you personally experienced? I ask this because I am of the mind that flying experience in the area of which you apply for a job is what is important eg charter experience when applying for a charter job. You see I have heard the same said about Instruction time, that it dosen't count for much.
So if some think bush flying dosen't count and others say instruction, then what counts as good quality experience?
My question though is about No. 2. Is it something you personally experienced? I ask this because I am of the mind that flying experience in the area of which you apply for a job is what is important eg charter experience when applying for a charter job. You see I have heard the same said about Instruction time, that it dosen't count for much.
So if some think bush flying dosen't count and others say instruction, then what counts as good quality experience?
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I have a point. What's the difference between what he did (offering $10k and to buy fis own endorsement) for a job, and some of the "rich kids" you see showing up at the airport with a cool $100k+ of their dads money and buying the hours to qualify for a job??
I think you should compare like with like. I've never seen anyone taking aim at the rich kids who don't have to "do the hard yards".
As usual, I agree with you Ginjockey.
Matana22 : I don't think he was saying you shouldn't do it. I think he was just it isn't essential.
I think you should compare like with like. I've never seen anyone taking aim at the rich kids who don't have to "do the hard yards".
As usual, I agree with you Ginjockey.
Matana22 : I don't think he was saying you shouldn't do it. I think he was just it isn't essential.
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ginjockey,
I agree with some of the sentiment of your post, but I think your comparisons are a little unfair. I haven't been around that long, but I can count the number of the negative backstabbing GA pilots I've met, whom you claim plague the industry, on one hand. The vast majority are pretty decent, share advice, have a laugh and do get on with it. We as a group could be a little less apathetic perhaps but that'd be my harshest criticism.
The implication that John paying 10K for a job is 'getting on with it' is flawed. You state
So .. would $20,000 be working harder? 50K sheesh I'm knackered with all the effort.
John has no doubt worked hard for a CPL and CIR. He should search for work based on the skills he has worked and paid for. He should not have to pay for a job.
If he does pay for a job, it is obviously highly unlikely he will be paid during his 'employment'. Further, any operator who runs a company using staff who pay to work for free is going to take other shortcuts. The operating procedures John flies to will most likely be sub-par, the aircraft will most likely be below average, and the entry on his resume will not be worth much to future employers. In short, the entire experience will tarnish his opinion of the industry, and the industries opinion of him. Not good value for money.
Ginjockey, we are not all moaning that John has paid for our next job, because I think most of us would never work for an operator who takes this guy on anyway. It has stirred us up because it is unethical, it is illegal and it does nothing to improve the industry. We are a pretty united group, we would all individually like to see the next guy do well, and ourselves in turn also. I really don't think we are the backstabbing, undercutting soiling group you accuse us of being. One minute you're saying we're stabbing eachother and going nuts and undercutting one another and various other dastardly deeds, the next you say you'd do anything legal to get ahead of the other mindless sheep. I don't wish to offend, but you're the one who seems a little polarised.
I agree with some of the sentiment of your post, but I think your comparisons are a little unfair. I haven't been around that long, but I can count the number of the negative backstabbing GA pilots I've met, whom you claim plague the industry, on one hand. The vast majority are pretty decent, share advice, have a laugh and do get on with it. We as a group could be a little less apathetic perhaps but that'd be my harshest criticism.
The implication that John paying 10K for a job is 'getting on with it' is flawed. You state
If a pilot can ruined by trying real hard, what’s that say about the state of things
John has no doubt worked hard for a CPL and CIR. He should search for work based on the skills he has worked and paid for. He should not have to pay for a job.
If he does pay for a job, it is obviously highly unlikely he will be paid during his 'employment'. Further, any operator who runs a company using staff who pay to work for free is going to take other shortcuts. The operating procedures John flies to will most likely be sub-par, the aircraft will most likely be below average, and the entry on his resume will not be worth much to future employers. In short, the entire experience will tarnish his opinion of the industry, and the industries opinion of him. Not good value for money.
Ginjockey, we are not all moaning that John has paid for our next job, because I think most of us would never work for an operator who takes this guy on anyway. It has stirred us up because it is unethical, it is illegal and it does nothing to improve the industry. We are a pretty united group, we would all individually like to see the next guy do well, and ourselves in turn also. I really don't think we are the backstabbing, undercutting soiling group you accuse us of being. One minute you're saying we're stabbing eachother and going nuts and undercutting one another and various other dastardly deeds, the next you say you'd do anything legal to get ahead of the other mindless sheep. I don't wish to offend, but you're the one who seems a little polarised.
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150Aerobat,
Just to clarify, it may not have come across qite how I intended it but the suggestion I was making is that there are a lot of pilots out there in GA who undercut and smear other pilots to get an "advantage" over them in the job stakes. This is a fact and we probably almost all get touched by it at some time during the hard climb through GA. In line with that, I feel that pilots who are really serious about getting on with the job should therefore not go be too concerened about what people may think about them when they go and do things to dinstinguish themselves from the rest of the pack. I don't believe that having a reputation for being an all round nice guy wins you many mates out there so don't bother with it and just get on with the push forward.
Matana22,
Sorry for the delay is responding but I have not been online lately. My theory on bush flying is that it's great for building skills and confidence and is an awesome opportunity if you get to do it. However, if you are offered a similar job flying charter off the cement tarmac at Bankstown then the lack of bush time is not going to make you a worse pilot than the guy who flies off the dirt in Queensland when it comes to airlines.
As with every job, the best form of training for a job is to do the job itself. I feel that there are some who feel that you have to have done bush time to be considered a bonafide pilot. I disagree with that widesweeping statement but do acknowledge the skills obtained out bush can be valuable. Same goes for instructing, parachute flying, crop dusting etc.
cheers all
Just to clarify, it may not have come across qite how I intended it but the suggestion I was making is that there are a lot of pilots out there in GA who undercut and smear other pilots to get an "advantage" over them in the job stakes. This is a fact and we probably almost all get touched by it at some time during the hard climb through GA. In line with that, I feel that pilots who are really serious about getting on with the job should therefore not go be too concerened about what people may think about them when they go and do things to dinstinguish themselves from the rest of the pack. I don't believe that having a reputation for being an all round nice guy wins you many mates out there so don't bother with it and just get on with the push forward.
Matana22,
Sorry for the delay is responding but I have not been online lately. My theory on bush flying is that it's great for building skills and confidence and is an awesome opportunity if you get to do it. However, if you are offered a similar job flying charter off the cement tarmac at Bankstown then the lack of bush time is not going to make you a worse pilot than the guy who flies off the dirt in Queensland when it comes to airlines.
As with every job, the best form of training for a job is to do the job itself. I feel that there are some who feel that you have to have done bush time to be considered a bonafide pilot. I disagree with that widesweeping statement but do acknowledge the skills obtained out bush can be valuable. Same goes for instructing, parachute flying, crop dusting etc.
cheers all
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I don't believe that having a reputation for being an all round nice guy wins you many mates out there so don't bother with it and just get on with the push forward.
Until the day you retire – you are on with the push forward. It’s been said many times before and I’ll say it again – it’s not about destination but how you get there!
Your subconscious attitude of thinking that every pilot you meet is waiting to backstab and undercut you is projected in some way. How can you enjoy life being on the defensive. If you expect the worst in people they might just deliver. Most pilots that I have met have had good intentions. Some just needed a little guidance.
Distinguish yourself from the rest of the pack by all means, but do it with some dignity and respect.
I feel that pilots who are really serious about getting on with the job should therefore not go be too concerened about what people may think about them
Like most, I haven’t had the easiest run but gees I’ve met some good mates, and all help each other out along the way. If you don’t like the state of things then do something about it. Please don’t accuse me or my colleagues of being programmed at birth to backstab, undercut and soil each other to justify your bitterness. If you think we’re all pricks then don’t work with us. I still think that most pilots are good, well rounded people working in a prick of an industry. It does bring out the worst in some, but it also brings out the best in others.
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Erin,
Firstly, show me in my opening post or in any of my other posts where I said "all GA pilots are pricks". I never wrote it and I don't feel that way about GA at all. Secondly, the topic wasn't motivated out of any bitterness, more out of sad reality. You raise some valid theory in your response but you are way off the mark with the above points.
Yes, in a perfect world, GA and airline pilots would all mentor, encourage, support and have a "positive impact" (your words, not mine) on the careers of their peers. The facts out there just really don't seem to support that argument do they? I don't come across a great deal of caring support and positive mentoring in these forums anyway.
I'm sure a search would show that for every one postive, mentoring post on the aussie pprune pages, there are ten hatred filled attacks right behind it.
Still, it's just my theory. Nobody else need subscribe.
Firstly, show me in my opening post or in any of my other posts where I said "all GA pilots are pricks". I never wrote it and I don't feel that way about GA at all. Secondly, the topic wasn't motivated out of any bitterness, more out of sad reality. You raise some valid theory in your response but you are way off the mark with the above points.
Yes, in a perfect world, GA and airline pilots would all mentor, encourage, support and have a "positive impact" (your words, not mine) on the careers of their peers. The facts out there just really don't seem to support that argument do they? I don't come across a great deal of caring support and positive mentoring in these forums anyway.
I'm sure a search would show that for every one postive, mentoring post on the aussie pprune pages, there are ten hatred filled attacks right behind it.
Still, it's just my theory. Nobody else need subscribe.
