Advicefor a Newbee Please
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Join Date: Jul 2005
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Advicefor a Newbee Please
Some advice please?
I have started work recently with a flying school in Wollongong. All the instructors are employed on a casual basis and we have all had to sign an agreement waiving our rights to Work Cover and Super. Is this legal and should we be doing this?
I ask the question basically for 2 reasons. 1 is because most of us earn our only source of income through this work (we are paid an hourly rate only when we fly) although a couple of us have other part time work too and 2, I have been told that recently one pilot had an instrument renewal failed by the CFI because he wouldn't sign the agreement and that the old CFI failed his instructor renewal (and was not even given a Grade 3) because he wouldn't sign either.
Surely this type of stuff is not fair and must be bad for the industry especially for someone like myself just starting out? Are all organisations in this game the same and have I got myself tied up in an illegal business?
I have started work recently with a flying school in Wollongong. All the instructors are employed on a casual basis and we have all had to sign an agreement waiving our rights to Work Cover and Super. Is this legal and should we be doing this?
I ask the question basically for 2 reasons. 1 is because most of us earn our only source of income through this work (we are paid an hourly rate only when we fly) although a couple of us have other part time work too and 2, I have been told that recently one pilot had an instrument renewal failed by the CFI because he wouldn't sign the agreement and that the old CFI failed his instructor renewal (and was not even given a Grade 3) because he wouldn't sign either.
Surely this type of stuff is not fair and must be bad for the industry especially for someone like myself just starting out? Are all organisations in this game the same and have I got myself tied up in an illegal business?
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Leave.
I'm reasonably certain (not 100%; maybe The Voice can help out here) that what they're doing is legal; providing your contract of employment has these conditions in it.
For example, I'm self employed in I.T. I pay both my own Super and Workcover. However, I'm paid considerably more than a permanent employee who holds a comparable position.
Do you have your own workcover? If not, you're running a huge risk. You should be covered the minute you leave home to go to work, while at work, and on the way home (if you're going directly home).
I've got to ask: Why are you working for such an employer? IMO, any employer who refuses to pay Super and Workcare (Unless you get paid AT LEAST $80.00 per hour for your instructing) cannot have much regard for any employee.
If any of your hearsay is true (be cautious about such hearsay, though) then that would go to confirm that your employer has you all in very low regard.
I'd be guessing then that you'll have a few more unpleasant surprises in store the longer you work there.
Ask yourself: Does the burger flipper at the local Maccas get treated as poorly as the staff where you work?
Leave.
For example, I'm self employed in I.T. I pay both my own Super and Workcover. However, I'm paid considerably more than a permanent employee who holds a comparable position.
Do you have your own workcover? If not, you're running a huge risk. You should be covered the minute you leave home to go to work, while at work, and on the way home (if you're going directly home).
I've got to ask: Why are you working for such an employer? IMO, any employer who refuses to pay Super and Workcare (Unless you get paid AT LEAST $80.00 per hour for your instructing) cannot have much regard for any employee.
If any of your hearsay is true (be cautious about such hearsay, though) then that would go to confirm that your employer has you all in very low regard.
I'd be guessing then that you'll have a few more unpleasant surprises in store the longer you work there.
Ask yourself: Does the burger flipper at the local Maccas get treated as poorly as the staff where you work?
Leave.
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Don't know the legalities to your questions here but if you go on "gut" value alone.
If you can move elsewhere do so.
For the record I don't think it is legal or will hold in front of a judge.
If you can move elsewhere do so.
For the record I don't think it is legal or will hold in front of a judge.
Although I haven't looked too deeply into the legalities, I work as a casual and my employer pays super; the fact that these people have asked you to sign an agreement waiving super and workcover certainly rings alarm bells with me.
If you're employed as a contractor, you should provide your own insurance, injury protection and so on, but as a casual employee I'm pretty sure that the employer is obliged to do so.
I think your employer is attempting to shirk his or her responsibilities here by putting one over on you, and I'd advise you to get onto the relevant government departments to suss out what your entitlements are (sorry, I don't have the contact details but I'm sure a few phone calls should set you in the right direction).
I'm certainly no unionist, but it sounds like these guys are doing something dodgy that will set you up for a fall if you're not prepared for the possibility of some kind of workplace accident.
If you're employed as a contractor, you should provide your own insurance, injury protection and so on, but as a casual employee I'm pretty sure that the employer is obliged to do so.
I think your employer is attempting to shirk his or her responsibilities here by putting one over on you, and I'd advise you to get onto the relevant government departments to suss out what your entitlements are (sorry, I don't have the contact details but I'm sure a few phone calls should set you in the right direction).
I'm certainly no unionist, but it sounds like these guys are doing something dodgy that will set you up for a fall if you're not prepared for the possibility of some kind of workplace accident.
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What they are making you do is quite illegal especially as you say, you are employed by them for the majority of your income.
These types of organisations only manage to do this sort of thing because pilots allow them to!
There are more honest organisations around that will give a newbee a fair start - WALK and don't look back!
These types of organisations only manage to do this sort of thing because pilots allow them to!
There are more honest organisations around that will give a newbee a fair start - WALK and don't look back!
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That agreement is tripe. All employers have certain minimum workers' compensation obligations. See the NSW Workcover site for more details:
As for super, if you're a casual employee it makes no difference. The employer must provide at least the minimum super as part of your remuneration. Here's the link:
http://www.ato.gov.au/super/content.asp?doc=/content/29505.htm&mnu=3982&mfp=001/007
I think there are also some provisions for employers providing super for contractors too, in certain cases.
Get evidence that this swine is attempting to force you into these dodgy conditions and dump him in the poop. Then leave.
Good luck
As for super, if you're a casual employee it makes no difference. The employer must provide at least the minimum super as part of your remuneration. Here's the link:
http://www.ato.gov.au/super/content.asp?doc=/content/29505.htm&mnu=3982&mfp=001/007
I think there are also some provisions for employers providing super for contractors too, in certain cases.
Get evidence that this swine is attempting to force you into these dodgy conditions and dump him in the poop. Then leave.
Good luck
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Wages and Conditions?
Man this sort of 
makes me mad. If you do this now, it will only get worse later on. DO NOT WORK FOR SUCH AN OPERATION - PLEASE!!! I know you can do better.
If you work here under these terms, teaching others to fly, BTW, where are they gunna go? where will it stop?
Call the tax department re the super thing - they'd be interested.
And remember, you have 6 (six, count 'em!) years to file a claim for unpaid wage entitlements.
S*ith*ad employers BEWARE!
CR.
makes me mad. If you do this now, it will only get worse later on. DO NOT WORK FOR SUCH AN OPERATION - PLEASE!!! I know you can do better.If you work here under these terms, teaching others to fly, BTW, where are they gunna go? where will it stop?
Call the tax department re the super thing - they'd be interested.
And remember, you have 6 (six, count 'em!) years to file a claim for unpaid wage entitlements.
S*ith*ad employers BEWARE!
CR.
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Angelseeker,
Basically if you are employed as a casual and not a contractor your employer MUST contribute 9% to your selected super fund.
Work cover is work cover and that is it! Like "Like This - Do That" said, there is minimums that an employer must follow.
How long ago did you sign the contract? Most contracts under general law have a cooling off period.
I would tell them to go and jump. Work for somebody that is worth working for.
I strongly suggest you follow this up. I take it you have a copy of the contract (you are allowed to have a copy).
Ash767
Basically if you are employed as a casual and not a contractor your employer MUST contribute 9% to your selected super fund.
Work cover is work cover and that is it! Like "Like This - Do That" said, there is minimums that an employer must follow.
How long ago did you sign the contract? Most contracts under general law have a cooling off period.
I would tell them to go and jump. Work for somebody that is worth working for.
I strongly suggest you follow this up. I take it you have a copy of the contract (you are allowed to have a copy).
Ash767
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I have spoken with both Work Cover and the ATO and most of the advice here is correct; the process you have been subjected to is illegal and is not encouraged by either organisations.
You are advised to contact either or both organisations and make a protected discloure which means your identity remains anonimous. Only after receiving an official complaint can action be taken against the offending organisation.
If you won't do yoursefl a favour; how about doing a favour for anyone that follows behind you AND THE INDUSTRY in stamping out this type of slave labour once and for all!
You are advised to contact either or both organisations and make a protected discloure which means your identity remains anonimous. Only after receiving an official complaint can action be taken against the offending organisation.
If you won't do yoursefl a favour; how about doing a favour for anyone that follows behind you AND THE INDUSTRY in stamping out this type of slave labour once and for all!
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If you are a 'contractor' instead of a casual employee what are the minimums you should be doing to protect yourself and is there anything that a flying school is legally obliged to pay or cover?
Being a "Contractor" opens up a can of worms. You have to think about paying your own public liability insurance, pay your own tax etc. I guess ATO would look on you as a business therefore monthly GST statments etc.
Don't even go there !!
Wageline is also a good one to get involved.
Don't even go there !!
Wageline is also a good one to get involved.
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Troops should know the truth
This organisation is headed up by a chap who hails from a faulty career in CASA (it was recommended he leave under some very mysterious circumstances).
If anyone in the game should know better on how 'slave labour' has a poor effect on the whole industry, it should be him!
Pity the troops are not covered by Workcover, don't get paid Super and are expected to work for a lousy $40 per hour when he and his empire are on huge wage packages and the rest are running around in new company cars! No wonder the GA Industry in Australia is at an all-time low when sc*mbags like this have an influence upon it!
Report the b*astards to the appropriate authorities and do it now!
If anyone in the game should know better on how 'slave labour' has a poor effect on the whole industry, it should be him!
Pity the troops are not covered by Workcover, don't get paid Super and are expected to work for a lousy $40 per hour when he and his empire are on huge wage packages and the rest are running around in new company cars! No wonder the GA Industry in Australia is at an all-time low when sc*mbags like this have an influence upon it!
Report the b*astards to the appropriate authorities and do it now!
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Re contractor v employee:
This from a basic aviation law course I did as part of a degree (no we won't go into that one again):
What is an important factor is whether you're a contractor or an employee. The way that the courts determine this these days is what's called 'the multi-factor (or indicia) test'. In short, this looks at a lot of things: including manner and nature of remuneration (regular? PAYE tax taken out? paid for the completion of a particular project?), provision and maintenance of equipment needed for the job, hours of work and the degree of control over the worker's activities.
The way I see it (I'm not a lawyer so don't take this as definitive), there are a few bits of this operation that suggests employer/employee relationship: the fact that uniforms are required suggests a certain degree of control, as does prescribed working hours, and the major bits of equipment required for the work (ie the aeroplanes) are provided by the company. There may be more as well but on balance I'd say it seems it's an employer-employee arrangement - in which case super and WorkCover are a legal entitlement.
That make any sense at all?
This from a basic aviation law course I did as part of a degree (no we won't go into that one again):
What is an important factor is whether you're a contractor or an employee. The way that the courts determine this these days is what's called 'the multi-factor (or indicia) test'. In short, this looks at a lot of things: including manner and nature of remuneration (regular? PAYE tax taken out? paid for the completion of a particular project?), provision and maintenance of equipment needed for the job, hours of work and the degree of control over the worker's activities.
The way I see it (I'm not a lawyer so don't take this as definitive), there are a few bits of this operation that suggests employer/employee relationship: the fact that uniforms are required suggests a certain degree of control, as does prescribed working hours, and the major bits of equipment required for the work (ie the aeroplanes) are provided by the company. There may be more as well but on balance I'd say it seems it's an employer-employee arrangement - in which case super and WorkCover are a legal entitlement.
That make any sense at all?
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Shortandsmelly
I would agree your assessment is about 100% correct.
We now learn that the pilot who failed the IFR renewal took them to task BUT WAS PAID an undisclosed sum (confidentiality clause) not to persue the matter further. (smells pretty sad?)
This is the same mob that launched a charter company (with all the hoopla) last year and have done only 3 charters since - there advertising claimed they had a conquest on line but naturally all of it was Bulldust.
This is the same mob who maintains an AUSAR contract with staff on 24 hours standby for rescue work BUT very seldom actually has these people in place although they report to AMSAR each morning with crew lists that are bodgy. What a farce?
We now learn that the pilot who failed the IFR renewal took them to task BUT WAS PAID an undisclosed sum (confidentiality clause) not to persue the matter further. (smells pretty sad?)
This is the same mob that launched a charter company (with all the hoopla) last year and have done only 3 charters since - there advertising claimed they had a conquest on line but naturally all of it was Bulldust.
This is the same mob who maintains an AUSAR contract with staff on 24 hours standby for rescue work BUT very seldom actually has these people in place although they report to AMSAR each morning with crew lists that are bodgy. What a farce?
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mate, as an IR major myself you have hit the nail on the head with the court's interpretative tests re: the employer/employee relationship. even though an employer may classify you as a contractor, the employment relationship may indeed prove to be otherwise.
typically, many a 'contractor' uses this test to seek relief through the courts with regard to unfair dismissal; whereby the court has subsequently found the employment relationship to indicate that of employer/employee rather than an individual contract.
I learnt to fly at the given organisation several years ago.
Another poster stated a few months back, which in my experience I can vouch for:
"avoid wollongong like the plague".
typically, many a 'contractor' uses this test to seek relief through the courts with regard to unfair dismissal; whereby the court has subsequently found the employment relationship to indicate that of employer/employee rather than an individual contract.
I learnt to fly at the given organisation several years ago.
Another poster stated a few months back, which in my experience I can vouch for:
"avoid wollongong like the plague".
